integrated BJT - inverse characteristics?

Yes.

Of course they do. What do you think isc, nc, ikr, nr, br, var, etc., refer to?

.model qn npn

+is=2.209e-17 nf=1.000e+00 vaf=3.119e+01 +bf=1.164e+02 isc=1.820e-16 nc=1.500e+00 +ikf=4.345e-02 ikr=1.560e-02 nr=1.000e+00 +ise=9.490e-16 ne=2.500e+00 +br=1.565e+01 var=2.499e+00 +re=5.268e+00 +rc=2.131e+01 +rb=1.772e+02 trb1=1.000e-03 +rbm=3.167e+01 trm1=1.000e-03 +iss=8.038e-15 ns=1.000e+00 +xcjc=2.000e-01 fc=7.500e-01 +eg=1.110e+00 xti=5.835e+00 xtb=1.078e+00 +tf=9.400e-12 xtf=8.000e+00 itf=4.345e-02 +vtf=1.760e+00 ptf=1.500e+01 tr=1.000e-09 +cje=4.700e-14 mje=4.100e-01 vje=9.600e-01 +cjc=4.300e-14 mjc=3.900e-01 vjc=7.500e-01 +cjs=7.000e-14 mjs=3.900e-01 vjs=5.800e-01 +af=1.900e+00 kf=3.300e-11

Beware that IC devices have _4_layers_

Some process houses even model that behavior during saturation.

...Jim Thompson

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| James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
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| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
             
 I love to cook with wine     Sometimes I even put it in the food

Your source chose to let those parameters default.

My libraries currently show 65 different _houses_, most of which sport at least 2-3 different processes.

If you're trying to design a chip you might consider hiring an expert ;-)

...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
             
 I love to cook with wine     Sometimes I even put it in the food

Going to have to look more closely at the documentation. A number of these parameters typically sport zeros.

Operation is expected within a diode drop of one supply rail or another. At present I'm concentrating on the negative rail. Still have no access to process house models. Some progress..eh?

RL

You have to be careful comparing models by amateurs with those from (us) pros ;-)

BF, for instance, is the beta with no emitter or base current crowding... NOT what you might measure at IC=1mA

...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
             
 I love to cook with wine     Sometimes I even put it in the food

Odd.....these parameters give apparent gains of about three orders of magnitude higher than would be expected, based on straight BF and BR (+40K and -4K) entries. It also reverses prior to the zero base current crossing.

This compared to three other models.

RL

Do yo uknow any? ;-)

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Are you talking about reversing the roles of the emitter and collector? It is an old trick used in "solid state" chopper circuits to get low offset (and why are semiconductor versions "solid state" and *RELAYS* not??). Technically, a transistor is still active even if the collector goes toward zero volts WRT the emitter (standard or reversed condition). It is only when the "other" junction gets forward biased where the conditions are different (both junctions then forward based).

[snip]

Then contact the process house in consideration and request the models. Always free, usually just requires an NDA.

...Jim Thompson

-- | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at

| 1962 |

Bill Clinton also had a Stimulus Package. Her name was Monica.

Takes a while to absorb the info in any plot. Looks like all four are unbelievable nonsense......back to the drawing board.

I'm not trying to design an IC, merely exploring/demonstrating feasibility, through the modeling linear of interface functions that can't be readily breadboarded, due to unavailability of the actual integrated structures.

RL

Well.... there ARE multiple transistors on one substrate...from a super-matched pair by some dinky semi house named National Semi, to 5 on a substrate in a DIP (if i remember correctly).

I think Bill just had the package. The stimulus was Monica's.