In Norfolk, evidence of climate change is in the streets at high tide

And if we all send more money to the government, they will protect us from all this calamity.

So Bill, What should we do. Tell me something that doesn't involve more taxes and i just might agree with you. I've previously mentioned planting trees, and i certainly support reasearch into alternative sources of energy because we will need to replace fossil fuels, but i don't think we should pay for carbon capture devices.

Mark

now what's going to happen, or precisely when. Loads of fear, uncertainty a nd doubt.

pen or precisely when. I just don't have the fear. I am hopeful that we w ill understand what is going to happen pretty soon. Maybe within ten years .

We do understand things like higher global average temperatures, more water vapour in the air and consequently more energetic weather systems.

We don't know enough about where the - more energetic - weather systems wil l take the extra rain and so forth.

Some of the climate related changes are unexpected - colder winters in Nort hern Europe seem to be a consequence of - more frequent - ice-free conditio ns in the Barents and Kara Seas, north of Finland.

at burying your head in the (already slightly damp) sand, you may be less s usceptible to the early stages of fear, uncertainty and doubt, but it won't take many more Katrinas, Sandys and Haiyans to pound the message into the thickest skull.

went over our house. But our house is about 15 miles from the coast so it was a non event for us. I do not remember losing our electric power. But it is possible that we did lose power for a few minutes, I just do not re member.

You'd have remembered the storm surge if it had got that far inland. Many d o.

You missed my point, the article gives you some idea of the types of intellects on the government side of the equation. Be afraid.

m all this calamity.

Not exactly. We need to change our major energy source, from burning fossil carbon for fuel to relying on renewable energy - wind and solar power. At today's prices, this doubles of the cost of energy. Since energy costs are about 8% of the US GDP, making this changeover is equivalent to foregoing r oughly three years of normal economic growth. It would take at least a deca de - probably several to make the changeover - so it's not going to wreck t he economy. Runaway anthropogenic global warming would eventually wreck the economy, big-time, so it's a prudent choice.

It isn't "protecting you from the calamity" but rather limiting the extent of the calamity, and you wouldn't be paying more money to the government bu t rather learning to live with a higher energy price (which you'll have to any way - there's only a finite amount of fossil carbon to be dug up, and a s we dig up the more easily accessible chunks, the cost of extraction rises steadily).

nd I just might agree with you.

I just did. You'll probably see the obligation to buy more expensive energy as a "tax", rather than insurance, but that's your problem.

h into alternative sources of energy because we will need to replace fossil fuels, but I don't think we should pay for carbon capture devices.

You don't need to do any research on alternative energy devices - it's all been done. You can buy the hardware off the shelf. It will get cheaper as t he demand rises - the rule of thumb is a 50% fall in the capital cost per k ilowatt for each factor of ten increase in the volume shipped. The Germans did that with photovoltaic hardware a few years ago, and the Chinese did it again more recently, bankrupting the German photovoltaic industry in the p rocess.

You can't make that claim with too much confidence. The article tells you what the Washington Post took away from the presentation, rather than what the intellects on the government side brought to it.

You also need to spread it below your house to raise that.

assuming "few" is a number greater near 2.5 if you live in a mobile home, your bucket is 20l and your "yard" is less than 100m^2 such a plan might work.

The wealth-envy people should be pleased--it'll redistribute money from rich people.

I'm at ~250m, on a hill, but I'm digging a moat. Can't be too careful...

Maybe I should build a seawall, too.

Cheers, James Arthur

t coast.

the northern half of the UK sunk under the weight of it's ice sheet during the most recent ice age, and is still rebounding, which means that the sout hern half of the UK is now sinking in compensation.

t alone articulate.

Actually it's not a subsidence issue, it's more complex:

The Washington Post story polished the reality of the exchange.

t coast.

the northern half of the UK sunk under the weight of it's ice sheet during the most recent ice age, and is still rebounding, which means that the sout hern half of the UK is now sinking in compensation.

t alone articulate.

there's only a finite amount of fossil carbon to be dug up, and as we dig up the more easily accessible chunks, the cost of extraction rises steadily ).

l been done. You can buy the hardware off the shelf. It will get cheaper as the demand rises - the rule of thumb is a 50% fall in the capital cost per kilowatt for each factor of ten increase in the volume shipped. The German s did that with photovoltaic hardware a few years ago, and the Chinese did it again more recently, bankrupting the German photovoltaic industry in the process.

So all we need to do is nothing. The cost of fossil fuels will go up and t he cost of renewable energy will go down. When renewable energy is cheaper , everyone will convent to renewable energy.

Dan

g up the more easily accessible chunks, the cost of extraction rises steadi ly).

all been done. You can buy the hardware off the shelf. It will get cheaper as the demand rises - the rule of thumb is a 50% fall in the capital cost p er kilowatt for each factor of ten increase in the volume shipped. The Germ ans did that with photovoltaic hardware a few years ago, and the Chinese di d it again more recently, bankrupting the German photovoltaic industry in t he process.

the cost of renewable energy will go down. When renewable energy is cheap er, everyone will convent to renewable energy.

if you like conspiracies that is probably why the Saudis open the taps when oil price gets too much about ~$100 and people start looking for alternativ es

-Lasse

What you actually need is something to protect yourself from home invasion - all the people flooded out of low-lying property by the next storm surge may find themselves in urgent need of temporary accommodation.

At 250m above see level, you've got to worry about a flood of refugees from lower-lying areas. Even in California, some of them are going to be armed as well as desperate.

Sea level rise doesn't impinge at 3mm per year, but rather as an increased chance of a couple of metres of storm surge in front an unprecedently large hurricane.

g up the more easily accessible chunks, the cost of extraction rises steadi ly).

all been done. You can buy the hardware off the shelf. It will get cheaper as the demand rises - the rule of thumb is a 50% fall in the capital cost p er kilowatt for each factor of ten increase in the volume shipped. The Germ ans did that with photovoltaic hardware a few years ago, and the Chinese di d it again more recently, bankrupting the German photovoltaic industry in t he process.

the cost of renewable energy will go down. When renewable energy is cheap er, everyone will convent to renewable energy.

You've got to invest in renewable energy to get the economies of scale.

If we do nothing, the CO2 level in the atmosphere keeps on rising, the glob al temperature keeps on rising, the inconvenient consequences of climate ch ange keep on getting more obvious and more expensive and the amount of disp osable economic activity which we are going to have left over to devote to moving over to getting our energy from renewable sources is going to shrink .

If you are up to your ass in alligators, you haven't got a lot of spare tim e in which to drain the swamp.

Sea level rise is the classic example. We do know that the Greenland and We st Antarctic ice sheets are going to start sliding off into the ocean at so me point. We don't know when, and we don't know how fast - though we do kno w that at the end of the last ice age, the Laurentian ice sheet slid off as huge ice-bergs, and the embedded boulders (accidentals) show up across a b road swathe of the bottom of the North Atlantic.

There's about 14 metres of sea level rise in those ice sheets, and life cou ld get a bit hectic if they start moving fast. Reconstructing all our coast cities and going over to renewable energy sources at the same time might n ot be all that practical.

But they were polishing their understanding of what had been said, with a view to holding the attention of their readers, who don't seem to be all that intellectually accomplished.

No conspiracy at all. They've admitted doing this, any number of times. They also want a growing economy. If the world can't afford food, they don't buy oil.

dig up the more easily accessible chunks, the cost of extraction rises stea dily).

s all been done. You can buy the hardware off the shelf. It will get cheape r as the demand rises - the rule of thumb is a 50% fall in the capital cost per kilowatt for each factor of ten increase in the volume shipped. The Ge rmans did that with photovoltaic hardware a few years ago, and the Chinese did it again more recently, bankrupting the German photovoltaic industry in the process.

nd the cost of renewable energy will go down. When renewable energy is che aper, everyone will convent to renewable energy.

Let the Germans invest in renewable energy. If they get the economies of scale working, we can either buy from them or seeing that that actually wor ks, we can invest in renewable after they pay for the development.

obal temperature keeps on rising, the inconvenient consequences of climate change keep on getting more obvious and more expensive and the amount of di sposable economic activity which we are going to have left over to devote t o moving over to getting our energy from renewable sources is going to shri nk.

Explain why the disposable economic activity is going to shrink. We are go ing to have saved a bunch of money by using the cheaper fossil fuel. So we should have loads of cash.

ime in which to drain the swamp.

West Antarctic ice sheets are going to start sliding off into the ocean at some point. We don't know when, and we don't know how fast - though we do k now that at the end of the last ice age, the Laurentian ice sheet slid off as huge ice-bergs, and the embedded boulders (accidentals) show up across a broad swathe of the bottom of the North Atlantic.

ould get a bit hectic if they start moving fast. Reconstructing all our coa st cities and going over to renewable energy sources at the same time might not be all that practical.

Why would you reconstruct our coastal cities? Just move the activities to Detroit. And build more nuclear power plants. The research for reliable f usion power should be complete by then.

Dan

Why would you not welcome the people who have been flooded. It isn't as if they will be a large portion of the population.

Dan

e dig up the more easily accessible chunks, the cost of extraction rises st eadily).

t's all been done. You can buy the hardware off the shelf. It will get chea per as the demand rises - the rule of thumb is a 50% fall in the capital co st per kilowatt for each factor of ten increase in the volume shipped. The Germans did that with photovoltaic hardware a few years ago, and the Chines e did it again more recently, bankrupting the German photovoltaic industry in the process.

and the cost of renewable energy will go down. When renewable energy is c heaper, everyone will convent to renewable energy.

f scale working, we can either buy from them or seeing that that actually w orks, we can invest in renewable after they pay for the development.

Wrong answer. We've ought to start reducing our carbon dioxide emissions no w, and we've got to get the trend line pointed well down within the the nex t decade or so.

global temperature keeps on rising, the inconvenient consequences of climat e change keep on getting more obvious and more expensive and the amount of disposable economic activity which we are going to have left over to devote to moving over to getting our energy from renewable sources is going to sh rink.

going to have saved a bunch of money by using the cheaper fossil fuel. So we should have loads of cash.

Agriculture isn't going to be working the way we are used to, so food price s are going to go up. That brings political instability, so we are going to be fighting - hopefully small - wars all over the place. The weather is go ing to get more energetic, so there are going to be more floods, droughts, fires and storm damage. We are going to have quite a bit of extra stuff goi ng on that we will have to worry about and pay for.

time in which to drain the swamp.

d West Antarctic ice sheets are going to start sliding off into the ocean a t some point. We don't know when, and we don't know how fast - though we do know that at the end of the last ice age, the Laurentian ice sheet slid of f as huge ice-bergs, and the embedded boulders (accidentals) show up across a broad swathe of the bottom of the North Atlantic.

could get a bit hectic if they start moving fast. Reconstructing all our c oast cities and going over to renewable energy sources at the same time mig ht not be all that practical.

o Detroit. And build more nuclear power plants. The research for reliable fusion power should be complete by then.

You'd need to reconstruct your coastal cities because lots of people live t here, and lots of goods move around the world in boats, and get shifted ont o road and rail at ports (which do have to be right on the coast, wherever it is).

The search for reliable fusion power has been going on for quite a while no w. There's a working fusion reactor some 93 million miles away, and while w e can tap into only a small proportion of the power it puts out, that's qui te enough to sustain our current economy.