I'm thinking about letting the taxpayers subsidize me.

James Arthur knows where the US medical system is - half- again as expensive per head as anybody else's, no more effective for the fully insured than anybody else's, and the worst for the population as a whole of any advanced industrial country.

What's actually necessary to make it work better is to make it a properly universal system, like the medical care systems in every other advanced industrial country.

Obamacare is step in that direction. It's dropped the percentarge of medically uninsured Americans from 18% to 11.9%, so there's a way to go yet.

Rational observers don't seem to think that it's making medical care more expensive. Spending on medical care seems to be rising everywhere, as people live longer and treatments for more conditions become available (and worth buying).

The US does suffer from a remarkably expensive health care. Canadian observers have put a lot of the blame on an over-administered system, which has a higher proportion administrators to health carers than systems in other countries.

Malpractice insurance in the US is remarkably expensive, and ambulance-chasing lawyers are presumably counted as administrators rather than carers.

It's not - in fact - clear that it does cost more. The system has changed, which always means that some people are going to end up paying more, and complain about it, while others are going to pay less, and will be less likely to make a fuss about it.

The phrase "affordable" meant that it was intended to allow some people who couldn't previously afford health health insurance to take it on. A 6% rise in the proportion of the population insured suggests that it succeeded.

However "odd" the mechanism may be, it does what it was intended to do, though perhaps not as much of it as it should.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
Bill Sloman
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What is the source of this quote? I'd love to see the research and understand the connection.

So this is not about the result, this is about campaign promises? I figure everything I am told in a campaign is a lie. We are still running Gimo aren't we?

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Rick
Reply to
rickman

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respondents noted that they were putting off some form of medical treatment because of the expenses associated with that treatment. This marks the highest reading in the 14 years that Gallup has conducted this poll, and is up noticeably from the 19% that delayed medical treatment because of cost in 2001..

No, they don't necessarily imply anything of the sort. The 19% figure is from 14 years ago and so is not a very good point of comparison in isolation. I'd be willing to bet that using more recent numbers shows something very different.

You spew the same nonsense over and over. Your insurance premiums don't pay for the policies of others. If you don't like the pricing of medical care why don't you complain about that instead of complaining that someone is helping others to pay for it? Oh, I get it. You have the money to pay for insurance and you don't give a damn if anyone else gets medical care or not!

Thanks Mike for paying for my healthcare. :)

Yeah, I guess if we can't make this worrk, we have no alternative but socialized medicine. It's too late to go back to the "I've got mine, you get yours" medical care plan.

--

Rick
Reply to
rickman

and

,

The "average family" doesn't exist. There are a large number of different f amilies, all with their own problems. The lower 80% of the US income distri bution has seen their income stagnating since Reagan came to power, so the habits they learned from their parents (back when the expansion of the US e conomy boosted everybody's incomes, rather than just the incomes of the ric h) haven't served them too well.

Medical birth control means that you don't get more doctors trained to meet the increased demand.

Obamacare can only tackle some of the problems of the US medical system. Me dical education is expensive, and the US doesn't use tax revenue to encoura ge more medical students to get training - that would be socialist, and wou ld involve lowering the admission standards for medical school.

and growing tax for those without it -- about $1,000 per year that pays for somebody else's emergency room and charitable care." --Barack Obama

at

y

It doesn't make much difference to your health - most of the time - if you visit the emergency room early and get minor (and cheap) treatment for what would have been equally - but more expensively - curable if you'd gone in later.

It would be nice if low-income individuals had doctors and went to them eve n earlier, but a couple of generations of over-priced and under-insured hea lth care have instilled behavior patterns that it's going to take more than a few years of Obamacare to correct.

More visits to the emergency room is probably the first step on the right p ath, rather than evidence that Obamacare is the wrong path.

The fact that there are more visits isn't evidence that the total cost of p roviding emergency room care has increased - granting that this is "new res earch" that only you have been told about, we can be pretty sure that if th e extra emergency room visits had cost more money this fact would have made it into your report.

If that were the case, the Tea Party would have been dismantled some years ago. Of course politicians never lie - they merely mislead ...

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
Bill Sloman

Why then do we need to subsidize families up to $93,000? They were fine buying their policies before Obamacare. Except for that 6% which is more like 4%.

About 75% of families have an MAGI of less than $60,000, this means their subsidy would be about $10,000. If it doesn't cost more why would we need to give* 75% of the population $10,000 to buy their health insurance?

A few sources of info to check my facts.

Mikek

*give, Take from one taxpayer receiving Obamacare and give to another taxpayer receiving Obamacare.
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Reply to
amdx

I'm well aware that I provide welfare and food stamps for many, you're the first to say thank you. Your kinda welcome, Mikek

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Reply to
amdx

Where did you hear that fairy tale?

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Now tell us, how exactly do doctors curb enrollment in such schools? Stand in front of the doors in fatigues, guns in hand?

A hard dose of reality:

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It is, after the even more damaging tort law effect.

Sure it does. A few month ago we were quoted zero Dollars (they said covered, no co-pay) at our HMO, _then_ they socked us with a $163 bill. And don't get me started on the behavior of their "member services" folks. So we filed a grievance with the state because with the HMO it went nowhere. that seems to have gotten their attention. It's not a lot of money but I find this less than honest (to say it politely) and this is about principle. We knew that the same procedure would have cost around $70 out of network so we'd have gone there had we known what's in their chargemaster. But with a secret chargemaster you can only call. It was not the first time.

This needs to change, and pronto. That would be part of _real_ health reform.

Sorry, but that is incorrect. I've got a few decades of medical device experience under my belt. Most of that as a consultant and there you get around. I know the decision makers in a lot of companies and they are usually not medical doctors.

Then they either did something wrong or their grades weren't good enough.

Only when it comes to turf protection, where they fight it tooth and nail if some procedures is contemplated to be allowed done by nurses or others. They have not much other say.

--
Regards, Joerg 

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply to
Joerg

Then you are not a consultant but a service provider. Very different field.

I do not ever want to get involved in manufacturing as a business. certainly not in a leftist state like California where they'll send the goons after you. Then there's the whole screwed up tort law. Someone sticks your board into his mouth or does something else that is really stupid and his widow sues the shirt off your back.

--
Regards, Joerg 

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply to
Joerg

Yes, I do want to hear your numbers. Back up your statements with facts instead of words.

Talk to you plan administrators, they can tell you the reasons.

Like exactly what? Free sex change operations? Yeah, right.

They can read the numbers, those in their health plan. Many had theirs terminated because they were lied to.

--
Regards, Joerg 

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply to
Joerg

But Obamacare doesn't, and that's the problem. I went onto the exchange to see if that could get us out of this hyper-inflationary health pricing. There was no discount for non-smokers and no surcharge for smokers.

As long as this president is in office nothing can be repealed because he'd veto it anyhow. My hope is that this changes at the next election, then America can breathe again. Hopefully ...

--
Regards, Joerg 

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply to
Joerg

No surprise to me at all.

I know people who just pay the tax penalty. Because that costs less and they can't afford to go to the doctor anyhow, with or without Obamacare.

Others "opt out" of the labor pool. Since Obama took office the labor participation rate in the US has shrunk by 3-1/2 percentage points. No surprise there either but that is dangerous for an economy.

And unfortunately that is the vast majority of the population in most areas.

--
Regards, Joerg 

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply to
Joerg

If I am not being misled my insurance costs have dropped from around $400 a month to $0 a month from about 4 years ago to 2015. I'll let you know for sure in a couple of weeks when I talk to someone about this.

Yes, they cite rising medical costs..... duh

You have been discussing this long enough that I can't believe you are not aware of how the policies have changed. But I have been discussing this with you long enough that I am aware that you retain the parts that please you by making O'care look bad.

I seem to recall that the part of O'care that required plans to either meet the minimum requirements or be terminated were pushed out a couple of years. But no plan had to be terminated. The insurance companies always had choices... they made the choices in ways to maximize their profits. Often they went ahead and shut down the plans of their own choice...

--

Rick
Reply to
rickman

I am flexible that's all. I've never liked being pigeon holed. I do what makes the most money at the time.

Yes, it's all about the goons... lol BTW, all you need to do is be smart. It is extremely unlikely that I will be sued. In fact, my terms and conditions nearly make it impossible. My customers have to shield me from liability.

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Rick
Reply to
rickman

I love it when *you* do my research for me...

"However, unless Congress lifts the 16-year-old cap on federal support for residency training, we will still face a shortfall of physicians across dozens of specialties"

Who do you think advises Congress on programs like this? Doctors.

Then there is...

" The overall growth in medical student enrollment can be attributed, in part, to the creation of new medical schools as well as existing schools? efforts to expand their class sizes after the AAMC, in 2006, called for a 30 percent increase in enrollment to avert future doctor shortages. In 2013, 14 medical schools increased their class sizes by more than 10 percent." Note that this is largely controlled by the AAMC, see below.

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Darrell G. Kirch, M.D. President and Chief Executive Officer

Atul Grover, M.D. Chief Public Policy Officer

Maryellen E. Gusic, M.D. Chief Medical Education Officer

Janis M. Orlowski, M.D. Chief Health Care Officer

John E. Prescott, M.D. Chief Academic Officer

Board Members, 2014-2015 Chair: Peter L. Slavin, M.D. Chair-elect: Robert J. Laskowski, M.D. Immediate Past Chair: A. Lorris Betz, M.D. President and CEO: Darrell G. Kirch, M.D. Karen Antman, M.D. ...etc...

No need for guns when you pull the strings.

Clearly you are not open to other evidence. That is actually one thing that has changed greatly in the last decade or so. NPs are doing much of the doctor's work and patients often don't even see the doctor.

--

Rick
Reply to
rickman

respondents noted that they were putting off some form of medical treatment because of the expenses associated with that treatment. This marks the hig hest reading in the 14 years that Gallup has conducted this poll, and is up noticeably from the 19% that delayed medical treatment because of cost in

2001.

ven though consumers are purchasing health insurance as required by law, th e out-of-pocket costs, such as co-pays and deductibles, are simply too much to bear for low-income and middle-class workers. "

one

ng

(e.g.

'

able,'

Spending it. The Obamacare plan costs them a lot more to provide. No limi ts, take all comers, mental health, breastfeeding, colonoscopy, mammograms w/o co-pay, etc.

About 90% of the exchange enrollees are subsidized, and the average subsidy covers about 3/4 of their premium. That's why they like it. Obamacare tak es other people's care (their health money), and gives it to O-voters.

Cheers, James Arthur

Reply to
dagmargoodboat

I don't know why you think only folks who voted for Obama receive benefits from the program. At the moment I am in central Virginia where the median income here is pretty low. These are just the sort of people who are recipients of many social programs including O'care. But I can assure you that very few of them voted for the man. Lol

There is some real irony in the fact that many of them don't even know what O'care is. I have explained to many that it is insurance... no death panels at all..... yet, muaaahhaahhaahhhh!

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Rick
Reply to
rickman

First we need universal single-payer surface mount resistors. They're essential. Everyone needs them. No one can get by without electronics. So, we need a universal, government-controlled system. To eliminate all the duplication and waste.

It's the only thing that makes sense.

Cheers, James Arthur

Reply to
dagmargoodboat

ly universal system, like the medical care systems in every other advanced industrial country.

you don't choose to be victim of crime so it makes sense to have universal police

you don't choose to have you house catch fire so it makes sense to have uni versal firefighting

you don't choose to be attacked by a foreign country so it makes sense to h ave universal defense

you don't chose to be sick so it makes sense to have universal health care

-Lasse

Reply to
Lasse Langwadt Christensen

Sorry, forgot the link...

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More recent update:

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The results are bad enough. That we were lied to in order to pass it is beyond outrageous. Turns democracy and representative government into a kingdom.

Cheers, James Arthur

Reply to
dagmargoodboat

Hey, I get a free* colonoscopy and mammogram also, forced by Obamacare regs.

*free because I pay for in with every premium.

Gee, I'm a step up/down the ladder, my subsidy would only be 70%.

Reply to
amdx

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