Gentlemen, start your bullshit detectors...

My "sigh" button went off on "digital jitter...exciting".

But I must admit I've missed my calling... all these suckers going to waste, because I didn't sell them some "high-end" audio gimmick ;-)

...Jim Thompson

--
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
|  Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
|  Phoenix, Arizona            Voice:(480)460-2350  |             |
|  E-mail Address at Website     Fax:(480)460-2142  |  Brass Rat  |
|       http://www.analog-innovations.com           |    1962     |
             
I love to cook with wine.      Sometimes I even put it in the food.

When you get a log scale bullshit detector run these through it

http://216.26.169.46/qray20/index.asp

--

    Boris Mohar

I like this one. A $23K speaker cable set and it still uses copper conductors? At this price, they should be gold, or even supercoductors, with an included cooling system, They could even get continuing sales by supplying "oxygen free" liquid helium to cool the SC material :-)

To reply, please remove one letter from each side of "@" Spammers are VERMIN. Please kill them all.

Fourth paragraph from the bottom:

"A very accurately balanced system will have a very wide bandwidth of noise rejection, well into the megahertz range where digital signals and high frequency modulated signals in analog circuits reside. A run-of-the-mill balanced power transformer will roll off around 1 kHz meaning that little if any high frequency noise will be attenuated."

My BS detector started beeping at that point.

Fourth paragraph from the bottom:

"The Equi=Tech system uses a patented "bifilar" AC power transformer winding method which very cleverly balances it's two output coils like identical twins. By maintaining near perfect phase accuracy this way, this method effectively reduces high frequency harmonic currents to the point where digital jitter in audio equipment is reduced by as much as 70%. Now that's exciting and incredible to consider but also documented and true."

....and my BS detector caught on fire.

Am I missing something here, or is my BS detector right?

If they are claiming to have patented bifilar AC power transformer windings, they are certainly bullshitting. They have been well known to those skilled in the art for as long as I can remember.

---------- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

Paragraph 1: Yes its true most of the delicate high tech equipment that operate in the plus Mhz zone require clean power, paradoxically the same equipment generate most of the noisy harmonics they hate.

Yes its also true that many transformers dip in frequency response at aroung 1Khz (just as the theoretical transformer model would predict) though some do so twice, first time around or before 10Hz, others above 3Khz or in the hundreds of Hertz. In most cases it actually depends on the construction details of the transformer

Paragraph 2: Hard to know what the author is trying to say but ....Anyway phase cancellation between input and output coils is a well known procedure used in reducing noise in transformers. Also used, is carefully building a trnasformer in such a way that its leakage inductance, capactance and resistance carefully filter out the noise due to the higher harmonics in the Mhz range.

...

...

This is the point where my BS detector started asking questions.

Thanks, Rich

"Guy Macon" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@corp.supernews.com... ....

They are more closely coupled to each other magnetically than non-bifilar windings. This is because more of the flux paths that go thru paths other than the shared core are common to both windings due to their proximity.

They also have higher interwinding capacitance. That does not usually go in the '+' column.

--
--Larry Brasfield
email: donotspam_larry_brasfield@hotmail.com
Above views may belong only to me.

I haven't dond a lot of power transformer design work; what are the advantages of bifilar windings?

I did some additional research, and found this:

| |How NBT works | |Plitron Narrow Bandwidth Technology transformers work on the combination |of a controlled increase of the internal series inductance and phase |cancellation principle. Phase cancellation is obtained by connecting |a bifilar winding in contraposition through a capacitor. At low |frequencies the capacitor acts as an open switch and allows 50/60 Hz |frequency to cross the transformer. At higher frequencies the |capacitor becomes active and noise attenuation is obtained. By |adjusting the series inductance and the capacitor value, Plitron design |engineers can control and optimize the passing bandwidth of the NBT |toroidal transformer in the application. | |Plitron published two technical articles at the Power Quality Conference |that describe the development of NBT in September 2001. | |Narrow Bandwidth Transformers (NBT): A new Clean-Power Technology, |

| | |Transformer Based Solutions to Power Quality Problems. | | |Patented technology | |A major element of NBT technology has been awarded a US patent |# 6,087,822 (issued July 11, 2000) entitled "Power Transformer |with Internal Differential Mode Cancellation Distortion." |Patents are pending in Canada, UK, and Germany. |

unless the design requires a capacitive connection between the two bifilar windings, in which case they help, rather than hinder.

This is an interesting, frequency-dependant version of the flux cancellation technique that has been used for years to reduce leakage inductance in high-voltage transformers. It has 2 extra windings, which are basically identical. One is wound closest to the core, the other furthest away. They are then connected in parallel. As they are the same number of turns, theoretically they have the same flux linkage hence no current flows. In practice they have different flux linkages due to leakage flux, so current does flow, generating a magnetic flux which opposes the leakage flux.

Betcha their patent wouldnt be hard to break :) We've been building transformers for about 120 years, its pretty much all been done before :)

Cheers Terry

And that's supposed to stop them from patenting it? You've heard of the USPTO, right? They're the people who granted patents (within the last 5 years) for "using 0 and 1 to perform calculations [with a computer! on those, um, innernets!]" and swinging sideways [on a "swing"!]. Oh, and using a computer to perform a transaction. And doing things like remembering a customer by name [with a computer! on those innernet thingies!]

Successfully patenting something that's been well-known for decades is SOP at the PTO.

known to

the

last 5

on

and

is

I'm afraid that you are quite right - but it would be a bullshit patent, easily knocked out in the courts by anybody who had the millions of dollars necessary to prosecute such a process .....

------- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

....but, Bill, that's the whole point of modern patent systems. Our patent system has been twisted from a process for protecting innovators from well-funded imitators, to keeping everyone out of a market except the well-funded. It makes no difference to me whether a patent is worth the ink it was written in. I have no way to fight it.

It only requires ignorant bureacrats and corrupt lawyers to pervert a good idea.

jp

Bwahahahahaha! ROTFLMAO!

...Jim Thompson

--
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
|  Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
|  Phoenix, Arizona            Voice:(480)460-2350  |             |
|  E-mail Address at Website     Fax:(480)460-2142  |  Brass Rat  |
|       http://www.analog-innovations.com           |    1962     |
             
I love to cook with wine.      Sometimes I even put it in the food.

I believe in Australia somebody recently patented the wheel.

I just thought of the use of air to inflate tyres. Must be a patentable idea.

--
 - René

and i don't see how that can be! unless your defending something? :)

I read in sci.electronics.design that René wrote (in ) about 'Gentlemen, start your bullshit detectors...', on Wed, 16 Mar 2005:

That's been done. Now, if you proposed a mixture of 79% nitrogen and 21% oxygen....

--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. 
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

I read in sci.electronics.design that John Perry wrote (in ) about 'Gentlemen, start your bullshit detectors...', on Wed, 16 Mar 2005:

How tautological!

--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. 
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

Considering your general disregard for punctuation and grammar (hey, that's your choice!), I don't suppose you would notice a tautology (or even three in the same sentence) if it bit you, twice in the same place. (;-)

--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. 
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk