Design and Social Consciousness

It doesn't help, but the effect is almost always transistory - as I said (and you've snipped) ecological concerns can be addressed and dealt with, as opposed the effects of unrestricted free trade.

No company I've ever worked with has ever had exactly same sales figures from one month to the next - competition and consumer fads are ever-present problems.

Indeed. You've just made it clear that your grasp of economics doesn't go past repeating what you read in the right wing press.

I've snipped the childish slogans that you pilfered from that source.

If you want to find out how modern socialism works, look at the European Union, and note that their currency - the euro - now buys $1.46174. When you finally get around to electing a Democratic president and a congress which isn't dominated by congressmen who share your mindless faith in the free market, you can reliably expect to do better. The rather more pragmatic European approach looks at the way the world actually works, rather than insisting that the unrestricted free market always leads to the best of all possible worlds, a delusion which gave you Enron, amongst other triumphs of free-market non-thinking.

It's characteristic of your kind of nit-wit to describe socialist taxation - to be spent on effective social security and health care - as theft, while your own tax system pays more out to your "defence" industries than is spent in aggregate by the next ten countries down the pecking order. and your internal free market in energy allowed Enron to rip off the consumers big time. If the guys who profit from the defects in your system are capitalists, their depredations aren't theft?

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

, and

Since I turned 65 a few months ago, I'm now retired - much against my will - and I get a pension, rather than unemployment benefit. This doesn't stop me from applying for work, and I had a job interview with Philips Lighting in Eindhoven about ten days ago which did seem to go well, but Dutch ageism being what it is, I can't say I'm all that optimistic about actually getting the job.

As far as wealth goes, my wife and I jointly own a tolerably big house in the Netherlands - there is a mortgage, but most of it has been paid off. Before we came to the Netherlands, my wife and I both earned much the same sort of money, and the deposit on the house - about half its value back then, or about a quarter of its current value - would have to have been seen as half mine, if you had wanted to look at it from that point of view.

It's still nothing to boast about, but more than you've got, if I understand your situation correctly.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

Defects? I thought it was the way the system had always worked, from the slave trade on. But Bill, you should have learned long ago that there isn't much joy to be had from arguing with naive believers. As Jan Huss put it, sancta simplicitas. All proper tea is theft, at which point I note that the kettle is boiling.

There is military and space electronics that require "full traceability." That means, if a part fails on a particular piece of gear, the manufacturer must have records to identify the manufacturer, the lot, the purchase date, and the incoming inspection procedures and results, for that exact part, and produce the certificates of compliance.

What you suggest is on this level of complexity. It would be insanely expensive. How am I to buy a reel of tantalum capacitors from Mouser and prove that they were manufactured by happy workers in healthy facilities, and that the tantalum was dug by happy miners who are well paid and work in safety?

You can maybe see the complexity. As an exercize, why don't *you* research the human rights implications of tantalum capacitors and report back to us here, and we'll see if there's anything we can do. Like for example, is it more socially conscious to use niobium, or maybe polymer aluminums?

John

More:

John

Gary, I've been an electronics designer for 20+ years and I'm not aware of any socially responsible distributors of components. In fact there's a growing problem with fake components, but let's keep to the subject in hand.

The problem being, as someone else indicated, that say you are DigiKey or another distributor. You may stock tens of thousands of lines, and the profit on each component does not support rigorous auditing, and no one asks for environmentally sound components because if your product is more expensive than that thing made in China, it won't sell.

Also, the "manufacturers" sometimes shift things to other fabs so a chip may *start* its life in California but as those fabs shift to smaller geometries, the older tech stuff gets transferred to the Philippines or wherever. I've seen PCB's with several chips, all ostensibly the same device (and all working), but with different factory markings on them. Sometimes common chips are even made by different manufacturers.

I've fretted over this issue considerably, and my own conclusion is, better to assemble in Europe or America (where workers are treated relatively well) but, don't try to control the source of the chips. I comfort myself by thinking, each chip probably contributes a fairly small amount towards pollution. Also, as the poorer countries industrialise and their incomes climb, they become more interested in the environment and become self-policing - a long view, but you're not going to change them.

I suspect there *is* one industry which uses traceable components from known sources: the defence industry. Generals don't like to be dependent on 3rd world countries for their supplies. I don't know much about that side of electronics supply though.

Finally, it is an unfortunate fact that this newsgroup has a high population of flamers, and even some of the very helpful types seem able to bring right wing politics into every post, perhaps it is a sort of peer bonding thing. Your post here was like raw meat to a troll. Fortunately, the newsgroup has plenty of people who offer salient advice. Why, it was here that I learnt that resistors are much tastier after frying.

I feel I ought to finish this with some biting sarcasm so as to retain some credibility amongst the jovial roughnecks who populate this group, but it would be like clubbing a baby seal.**

John Larkin suggests

That's why I've not used tantalums since large ceramic types (10uF+) became available for the voltages I'm interested in, a couple of years ago

BTW on the subject of Chinese ethics, have a look at this story:

according to the TV report I watched, the main problem was the complicity of officials. Because he was endorsed by them he gained a veneer of credibility which attracted investors. Once the money for the bribes ran out the scheme collapsed.

It could never happen here... new war, anyone?

Another ignorant asshole from down under blathers on about something he doesn't understand. 35 years ago I was on active duty, and denied dental care for teeth that broke while stationed at a remote army base. The moron told me I was going to have to wait over a month, till I was discharged from active duty and back home, even though blood vessels and nerves were hanging out of the sharp pieces of enamal. Another dentist took one look and told me that if it was taken care of right away, I would likely bleed to death.

As far as being disabled, I worked full time, until a few years ago. I am a couple years from full retirement age, and no one will hire people with serious medical problems, becasue they can't insure them. So much for you knowing anything about me. BTW, are you related to Phil?

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