Altium Designer Pricing

I like to augment the database with all the information from every part that is used, and not put that work off until later. That way everything that can be controlled at the schematic stage is controlled. Layout goes very quickly when that work is done up front. The BOM including part cost can be automatically generated. Datasheets are linked. Orders can be uploaded to Digikey so they come back with the PCB part designators printed on the bags (saves a lot of time for prototyping).

Simply changing a capacitor from X7R to X5R would require Internet access to create the database entry. As would changing to another transistor that I don't happen to have the footprint or SPICE model for already.

Here's a typical (autoloaded from supplier) database entry for a part. I actually add a couple custom fields and there is often more than one supplier listed. Of course the in-house-standard footprint (or footprints if there are options such as high/low density) for that exact manufacturer's part nummber with STEP file 3D body model gets attached as well as the SPICE model for simulation.

It sounds like you're talking about working at a much earlier stage in the design when things are a bit more abstract. At that stage, I don't see much point in involving a full EDA suite- the overhead is pretty high.

--sp

I've had a support group from a major and very reputable IT company trying to get that going for me. All in all it cost me almost 10h and it did not work. I did not bill my client for that time but it sure was aggravating. So I like to keep things simple, and Eagle does keep it simple. Installation on a new PC takes less than five minutes and there is no fuss with license servers.

That's nice if the CAD can do all this. Eagle can as well but I believe it only has purchase linking to Farnell which isn't useful for me. My default source is Digikey.

That is not so good. I can change such attributes sans Internet. Of course, a new SPICE does require at least email access. In general I prefer as much as possible to reside on the very PC where the design happens and not on some distant server. On the road I either copy libraries and such over to the netbook or carry that on a USB stick.

I don't do layouts because it is more cost efficient to farm that out, plus pro-layouters are always in touch with the latest and greatest fab capabilities. All I do is occasionally prescribe how to place and route very hot RF paths.

At the schematics stage selecting the right parts or creating the library entries is crucial. Also a link to the simulator and I believe Eagle now has an LTSpice link, I just haven't yet heard from anyone how well that works.

Footprints in my case are mostly placeholders because layouters generally use other CAD systems. Even clients that use Eagle have their own preferred footprints so it wouldn't make much sense for me to spend a lot of time on that.

I got a email today from Altium. Starting July 1 the pricing for a stand alone license for Designer (capture/cad/sim) is $9,245

Lot of really nice features like multiple grids on a board, polar grids, etc. A lot of money for things I wont be using (at least for now)

Tell them to count me out :-)

Polar grids sound nice, but we haven't bothered upgrading to the latest version. Last couple times I had to do a polar layout (rare!) I just made a spreadsheet and entered the coordinates in manually.

The new rigid-flex features do sound interesting.

I think that at the ~10K price and with the feature set and learning curve they have, it's not going to appeal much to the occasional user. I think if you use it less than a 10% of the time (a few hours a week) you're going to find it cumbersome and somewhat expensive. And there are alternatives that are just cumbersome. ;-)

You should contact Altium. They will put you in touch with sales rep in your territory. I work for Altium and can't begin to tell you how much misinformation is found on these forums.

Same thing happens with Thunderbird... it can go whacky until the connection is restored.

You are replying to a post a year and a half old (which you snipped)...

included.

AIUI:

There are various kinds of licensing system. There is a floating one which does require internet connection but lets anyone use it anywhere as long as two people do not want to use it at the same time.

Then there is a "stand-alone" type which is a license file that can be moved from machine to machine. This does not need an internet connection.

I often use Altium, but not from choice. It's not very user-friendly and makes simple things complicated.

I suspect it benefits from the old, "Nobody got sacked for buying IBM" trope, and of course, people will always defend their decision if they've spent a lot of money.

Cheers

Yeah, I just bought it for my company and I am still deeply ambivalent about it. Kicad is *so* close now, and it looks like it is on a really good path for the future.

Yes I think so. Although for me it's pretty much my money...

IIRC - Last year it was about $12k Australian for a single seat.

We didn't buy!

One thing about EDA software is that the price is very negotiable, especially if you want more than one seat. For a half dozen, offer them half price. For hundreds of seats, I've been told that prices can be ten per cent of list.

I use Protel 99SE, and it is pretty good. There are a few well-known bugs, and it is pretty easy to avoid triggering them. The design rules check (including layout vs. schematic) seems bulletproof. I've done maybe 300 boards with it. Not sure what Altium Designer offers, other than making channelized designs a bit easier.

A guy sent me a Kicad design, and I tried it. While it works, I think it has a LONG way to go to even match Protel 99SE. But, it really shows promise, so I am hoping it at least gets close. I don't know how much longer I can keep P99SE working. It does work fine on XP under a virtual machine.

Maybe it is just my vast unfamiliarity with Kicad, and most of what I need really is already in there. But, it seemed to require a LOT of clicking on icons, where I usually use keyboard shortcuts in P99SE. I have created a bunch of my own custom key bindings in P99SE, put common objects on the schematic toolbars, etc.

Jon

Why Eagle rather than any of the many open source packages?

Yeah, that durn s.e.d!

I guess I'm new to this. What is the difference between a "virtual machine" and a "VM"? I thought a VM *was* a virtual machine???

So what is wrong with KiCAD?

Why is that so hard? What else is difficult with KiCAD?

I found a few things, some niggles but some more serious (but it may be just that I did not find the best way). Some examples:

• It was too hard to create a footprint that was exactly what I wanted. You could get close quickly enough, but getting things exactly right seemed difficult. I was spending hours getting awkard irregular parts (like connectors) exactly right.
• At the time the libraries were very fragmented and I did not like the way most of the footprints were done. For example silk screen outlines going over the pads.
• I believe the design rule checking is incomplete, there are some constructs that are not checked properly.
• vias are not "first class objects". It is hard to just sprinkle a thermal vias around a pour or a thermal tab say. They have to be routed as part of a net first and I think they can get removed or cause DRC errors. There is some workaround where they are created as individual "components".
• 3D support is limited, there was no easy path to add a step file of the component to its definition and no easy way to export a step file of the finished PCB. (But now there is a nice script for export using other free tools).

BUT some of the features are extremely powerful, checkout the new routing features. , .

It seems to be on a great path for the future. I have been following the developers list and all the changes made and proposed and the general direction look good. Altium development seems to be more focussed on cosmetics and subscription lock-in and extracting yet more money for paid add-ons.

Kicad is cross-platform, 64-bit and written in screaming fast C++. AFAICT Altium is 32-bit only and I gather it consists of 15 million lines of object pascal dating back to the the 80's. Good luck rewriting that... There are important bugs going back years and for me it crashes several times a day. Sometimes I think they just add more and more stuff around a core that they no longer understand. Kicad Development has been boosted recently with major and ongoing contributions from CERN.

There is a major new release due real soon now (until recently you had to build from source to get anything not ancient).