Adding Oil - Can't mix brands??

Can OTOH go in a battery?

Ken

Why stop at 17 and 18? O can appear as at least O13 to O20, rather fleetingly in some cases. O13 has a half-life of 9 ms.

I read in sci.electronics.design that Ken Taylor wrote (in ) about 'Adding Oil - Can't mix brands??', on Wed, 12 Oct 2005:

HTO2? Very heavy hydrogen peroxide. Well, the molecules are small enough to fit through the filler hole... (;-)

The idea that distilled water could be "corrosive" is ludicrous. Distilled water allows the corrosion inhibitors in the antifreeze its mixed with to work without interference from random concentrations of dissolved minerals and ions in tap water (which varies from season to season in most areas, not only from region to region). Filtered and deionized water is a good second choice to distilled.

Horse poop. Running ANY type of water without antifreeze or corrision inhibitors will do that, but distilled water is the best choice to start with before you add your antifreeze or corrosion inhibitors if for some reason you can't run antifreeze (racing for example).

And gives new meaning to a "hot" battery... ;-p

I am familiar with the cautions of using distilled water in stainless steel water baths.

greg

I read in sci.electronics.design that Steve wrote (in ) about 'Adding Oil - Can't mix brands??', on Wed, 12 Oct 2005:

But it IS, especially when hot, with OTHER THINGS being present, such as different metals, carbon dioxide and oxygen. When you put it into the cooling system, it doesn't stay pure water for very long!

I've also heard that you should mix them (the water and antifreeze) before you pour them in, because they have different specific gravities, and you could get somehting like strata - or little nooks and crannies where you don't get a good mix.

But, everybody's heard a lot of old wive's tales about how to take care of cars. :-)

Cheers! Rich

Yes, although the positrons wouldn't get through the casing. But the electrolyte would fizz due to the nitrogen evolved.

I agree with you, Steve. Distilled water without corrosion inhibitors can be quite corrosive, even to stainless steels and aluminum, but with an effective inhibitor package, its use poses no problem.

In some cases, natural minerals of various types dissolved in the water provide some degree of corrosion protection, but I wouldn't want to bank on this.

The old suggestion ws to replace antifreeze every 2-3 years, because the inhibitors start to break down. If I don't do that, I just add some inhibitor after that time period. They also call it water pump lube and corosion inhibitor. Its a white liquid. I think it also make seals expand a bit.

Reminds me when I used to use Mobil 1 in my Datsun. I read where they have to get the mixture just right so seals do not shrink, but do not expand too much. I used to get some kind of sepage though. The sides of my engine would get wet with oil when I ran it hard.

greg

Tell you about my Mustang story. Took my 64.5 Mustang to Ca. high desert. For one reason or another, I had to refill my radiator several times. After a couple years, the mineral build up was so bad, I had a tuff time driving it anywhere without overheating. Finally got my Datsun, one reason I had to.

greg

Geez, people! That's what the antifreeze corrosion inhibition package is for. The whole point is that the final result of mixing antifreeze with distilled water is MORE stable and MORE predictable in its behavior than starting with tap water or drinking water of largely unknown content, some of which might work against the corrosion inhibitors in the antifreeze.

Perhaps, but that wouldn't last more than a few seconds once you start the engine and get the water pump pumping.

FWIW, I generally mix them before pouring into the radiator. You can feel the container heat up a little as you stir them together, so its obviously an exothermic process when antifreeze goes into solution with water- at least it was with the older ethylene glycol based coolants. I haven't filled any of my cars with G-05 HOAT coolant yet.

driving

Here is a little suggestion: if you are going to use tap water, use it from the HOT water faucet. Carbonates have the odd property of being less soluble in hot water so a lot of them fall out in the hot water heater and there is less in the hot water to clog up your engine. This works for coffee makers too.

I read in sci.electronics.design that R W Hughes wrote (in ) about 'Adding Oil - Can't mix brands??', on Wed, 12 Oct 2005:

Well, not quite. What happens is called 'temporary hardness' because it is removed by (preferably) boiling the water. Calcium and magnesium bicarbonates are quite soluble in water, but are decomposed by boiling, to form the carbonates, which are far less soluble and are precipitated as 'lime scale'.

I haven't had much success at getting all the plain water out after flushing the system (comparing measured output to stated system capacity), so I generally start with some straight antifreeze to balance; I guesstimate the amount of water still in there and add antifreeze to get about 60% antifreeze / 40% water. Then I work with the premix from there. It seems picky, but IIRC the last time I went through this there was close to a gallon of water left in the system after flushing.

inhibitor

inhibitor. Its a white

to

I did that in the old days, but not anymore. The water pump lubricants/corrosion inhibitors that used to be available were based upon 'soluble oils' and these were not healthy for hoses and other rubber parts. Don't know if they are still the same because I havent researched what is now available.

They were intended to plate out as an oily film on the cooling system surfaces and isolate those surfaces from contact with the water and corrodents. Air was the most likely corrodent in those old systems. Captive overflow systems probably help prevent corrosion in those old cast iron blocks as much as anything as they helped keep air intrusion to a minimum.

The water pump lubricant was usually something like the BASF Pluronic block polyols. Properly chosen, they could be good lubricants, dispersants, etc. and did not foam.

Engine systems soften use more varied metallurgy today, and the requirement for corrosion prevention systems may be more complicated.

It would be chemically incorrect to say that all the decomposition of antifreeze has to do with deterioration of the corrosion inhibitor packages. Glycols themselves can decompose too, usually yielding complex mixtures of oxidates (acids). Air is never totally excluded, and over time this decomposition occurs.

These acidic materials (similar to oxalic acid) can take up iron, increase corrosion, and in some cases cause precipitates. In some systems, the corrective measures taken are to simply buffer the pH up with borate or caustic soda, but at some point you are forced to change out these fluids.

I didn't mean to lecture on chemistry, but my point is, for longest life and best service, you should flush the system and change out the coolant at some appropriate interval.

You may get by with not doing it, but it is not really good practise.