Does anyone know if there any OrCad libraries containing flat spiral RF inductors? If no, then if I create an equivalent RLC circuit how can I simulate the dependency between inductance and frequency? Is it possible at all in this application or should I rather look for something else? yaro
Make it up with a .SUBCKT declaration
Then, in Probe, look at the real and imaginary components of current to derive inductance variation with frequency. (Create your own MACRO)
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
I was hoping there may be some easy way, so even someone who run an electronic Cad for the firs time can do it. So far I learned only some basics like building a circuit and running PSpice to get a graph showing current and voltage behaviour of that circuit. I've got no idea where to look for .SUBCKT or Probe however, or how to create macros in this application. My guess is that the macro will have something to do with using the formula for inductance where L=2pi*f*X and X=Vo / Io as I found only voltage, current and power markers in OrCad. If it wouldn't be to much to ask for more detailed explanation I would be very grateful as the only reason why I get my hands on OrCad is that I was hoping to find some easy way to simulate the relation between induction and frequency for different numbers of turns of a flat spiral coil to compare it with my measurements. The program looks much more complex then I thought and I never used any Cad applications before. I thought it will rather allow me to draw the component I need, giving it all the characteristics I require and then there will be an option to measure any parameters of that element that I need. Unfortunately it isn't so. J Celmer
The Pulsonix software I use has interactive spiral design support:
Spirals using intelligent rules supported Circular/square shape Gap rules defined Number of turns Inner spiral width defined Aspect ration for non-square shapes Corner radius defined for circular shapes Spirals can be made in Copper and non-electrical shapes Spirals can be created and saved within the footprint definition
You need other software to simulate the inductor, though.
Leon
You are basically using the wrong software for the job. PSpice is a general SPICE simulator, and CAN do RF simulation, but you have to do a lot of the work yourself. What you are needing is an RF specific simulator, that can take a spiral inductor definition and simulate it for various characteristics. For that, you might be better served looking at Microwave Office, or the Agilent tools. If you just need to extract a generic spice model from your spiral, Ansoft has tools that can do that.
But, if you are going to do spiral inductors and other RF design, you are going to need CAD to get it right!
Charlie
Thanks for the tip but I wan't be able to use it for the simulation I'd like to perform yaro
Thanks Charlie. I checked MW Studio and from what I found it is only suitable for 2d objects and similarly like sonnet (fully 3d tool) which I found fallowing the path you suggested it doesn't use typical wires but micro strips which I'm not too familiar with and not sure if I can use them to simulate a macro sized inductor with them. Also I'm not sure what they mean by ports in both of the programs. Honestly, I thought I could find something more user friendly for old fashion electrical engineers rather than computer experts. Cheers yaro
Welcome to the wonderful world of RF design. The rule is, THERE ARE NO WIRES! 8-) Everything is a transmission line, and there are no 'just connection' wires in your design.
Charlie
Hello Charlie,
And in RF design there is no free lunch, usually :-)
Anyway, Yaro, check this out:
-- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com
Thanks, Joerg, Good link.
But your newsreader quoting/snipping sucks... can't tell who said what when ;-)
...Jim Thompson
-- | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | | | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat | |
Hello Jim,
Better?
-- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com
Almost. Who's this "Jim" fellow you're saying "Hi" to ?:-)
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Ahm, some guy who know a thing or two about chips and red wine :-)
So, is the "Hello" up top also not kosher on usenet? Sounds so non-personal not to do that but if it is customary I guess I have to drop it.
-- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com
Look up how you reader can be configured. In Agent it's like this...
On %date%, %from% wrote:\\n
which puts the previous poster's information just before the quoted material.
You can easily add your "Hi" if you like... or other cutesy stuff... see Spehro's posts for example ;-)
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
I'll try to figure it out. But I am using Mozilla which is a Windows app without command line stuff and I am more of an assembler kind of guy...
-- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com
Looks like you're getting close ;-)
All you need is the date attribution and you've got it... see the top of this post.
Why is it that everyone wants to use a single tool to do all functions?
Mozilla/Firefox is a browser, Agent is a newsreader, Eudora is an E-mail client, etc.
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
It's so much easier. For the same reason I like my new CAD stuff. You can scoot back and forth between layout and schematic without ever leaving the program.
Maybe I should try Agent. But every time I switched web SW something broke and took hours to fix.
-- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com
I've used asitic in school some years back, and for free it's certainly decent, although I'd also suggest the OP should check out Ansoft Designer SV ("student version") -- it's also free, and can analyze spiral inductors as well as performing many other functions that your typical linear RF simulator can; it also has a nice GUI (somewhat weird at times, but still easier than direct netlist entry) and graphing abilities. One of the examples included is a spiral example.
---Joel
I've often wondered how many people actually use (meaning "purchase!") that extra option. I suppose that if you're designing a spiral inductor for, e.g., a switch-mode power supply then the actual inductor isn't that critical and you could get away with analytical formulas, telling someone to layout a spiral of such and such a size and number of turns, but for RF work you necessarily end up with a layout as you perform simulations and tweak your design anyway, which you'd just import into your PCB tool of choice.
Have you ever had a real board design where you used that feature, Leon?
---Joel
Hello Joel,
It is amazing what kinds of design tools we have these days. In fact, I didn't have to pull my old Bronstein/Semendjajew math dictionary off the shelf for over a month now. However, when it comes to really intricate stuff there is not much progress. When doing wave digital filters I still have to resort to DOS tools. Oh well, the same goes for other tasks, used grandpa's 70-year old planer to fix something on our deck yesterday.
BTW, did you find other good candidates for the RF engineer opening?
-- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com
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