what's a callback? - Page 4

Do you have a question? Post it now! No Registration Necessary

Translate This Thread From English to

Threaded View
Re: what's a callback?
Quoted text here. Click to load it
program
you

Seems that you've got yourself organized well. But under windows I too
select
files and hit enter. Or click it with the right mouse key, and choose from
print, mail-to, compile/make, copy, zip, or whatever is a valid option for
that
particular type of file under my mouse pointer. Win3.1 never attracted me.
Much too much trouble with that. But a lot has improved since then.

--
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and 'invalid' when replying by email)



Re: what's a callback?

[...]

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Heh - I run Win 3.11 on a 200MHz machine with 8 gig hard disk and 64 meg ram.
Most
of the time I'm in DOS, where I use my own operating system. It responds
instantaneously to any command and rarely crashes except when Windows calls a
bad
pointer and takes everything down. But a reboot only takes seconds and I'm back
in
business.

Your system needs a 2GHz machine with gazillion gigabytes of hard disk and more
ram
than most disk drives had in the 80's. Your operating system and word processor
take much longer to load, and you are constantly attacked by viruses, trojans,
adware, and popups.

Tell me again how things have improved since the 80's:)

(Although I do have to admit I will be happy when I can find a 2GHz machine that
will run all my code and still use my keyboard and mouse. Adobe is just too
slow.)

Best,

Mike Monett

Re: what's a callback?
Quoted text here. Click to load it
release
ram. Most
calls a bad
Quoted text here. Click to load it
back in
more ram
processor
trojans,

Well, I couldn't care less how much GHz or Gigabytes my machine has. I pay
the
$500 and take the box home. It works and I don't run out of space. Booting
takes
a minute, most applications start in less than 5 seconds except Protel that
shuffles for a minute, automatically reloading the last jobs I am working
on.
On average I reboot once a day, typically when I have been using Protel a
lot.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

My editors have syntax highlighting, I can cut and paste between
applications,
I can view my pdf-files, either from the internet or from my own collection,
I can print my own documents as pdf's, print the stuff on the printer in the
other room, backup my files to the other computer in my small network,
design
my printed circuit boards and mail them to my manufacturer, use other
graphical
programs to make some really good looking pictures, write software for
windows
and a couple of microcontrollers such as 8051, PIC, AVR, SX, program them
with
my nifty device programmer, debug them in-circuit, have silly talks with my
brother using skype, keep my website up-to-date, running my database, acces
my
bank account, the list is endless.

Quoted text here. Click to load it
machine that
too slow.)

Always try to be happy ;)

--
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and 'invalid' when replying by email)




Re: what's a callback?
[snip]
Quoted text here. Click to load it

AmigaDOS, circa 1985, lets you do all that and occupies
about 1 Mbyte of ROM/RAM and less than 5 Mbyte of disk
space.

Re: what's a callback?
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 15:10:08 +0100, "Frank Bemelman"

Quoted text here. Click to load it

You obviously have never looked at the 1 Floppy demo from QNX.
(Download from
http://qnx.projektas.lt/qnxdemo/QNXDEMO_405_network.ZIP )

One does NOT need hundreds of megabytes for a GUI based desktop
userinterface. Also look at RiscOS 3.11 that was available on a
machine with 1MB of RAM (512kB of ROM for OS). Now almost 20 years
later it is a bit dated, but Windows XP today does not have that much
extra, and it still does not have anti-aliased font handling. A fullt
featured DTP App with scaleble fonts (anti-aliased), with vector, and
bitmap embedded picture support. (The pictures can actually be
rotated, in the document which is still not possible with MS Word).
This App ran from 1x 3.5" floppy.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

The expectation that one needs multi-megabyte applications, that has
been created largely by Microsoft is actually holding things up these
days. Todays hardware, with apps written a bit better would be
unbelievably fast.

Regards
   Anton Erasmus


Re: what's a callback?
Quoted text here. Click to load it
something.

You obviously never looked at a typical Linux distribution that
comes on 4 CD's. Or what about 8 CD's and a DVD:
http://store.mandrakesoft.com/product_info.php?products_id16%6&osCsid=7f8b48da611942205d5bf4553185534d

A complete WIN98SE installation directory is 109MB.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

No, but it comes as hundreds of megabytes these days, because there
is little reason to squeeze it in less. What I remember from ~10 years
back is that windows 3.x came on a bunch of floppies. That were
perhaps 20 floppies or 30MB. Those were also the days that you really
ran out of memory or disk space, if you were careless. Today I don't
bother about it all. I save/keep everything, even emails that have
megabyte attachements. It is not that it is a lost art or something,
for instance PocketPC Windows doesn't take up that much space either.

My point is that the argument that Windows is 'bloated' doesn't hold.
I bet that there are more PIC's running (relative) bloated code than
PC's. Programmers at Microsoft aren't that stupid.

But I could be wrong about all that. My buggiest application is Protel.
It is full of bugs. That said, I find it a brilliant piece of software.

[snip]

Quoted text here. Click to load it

I don't look at the size of an application to judge it's value. Who knows
what's in there, or wants to know.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Yes, and nobody seems to be able to deliver. Have you tried open-office ?
Last time I checked, their spreadsheet was about 5 times slower than an
older version of Excel (2000).

But here is a great oppertunity for you. You only have to write it a
'bit' better.

--
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and 'invalid' when replying by email)



Re: what's a callback?
Quoted text here. Click to load it
http://store.mandrakesoft.com/product_info.php?products_id16%6&osCsid=7f8b48da611942205d5bf4553185534d
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Ehrr, does that WIN98SE include the equivalent set of applications,
including all source code?
Apples and pears again....



Quoted text here. Click to load it

Compare it to Palm OS and it's applications and you'll see that even
PocketPC is bloatware. Do you remember the phrase that WinCE brought back
the hourglass on the PDA...

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Tsss, compare a Internet Explorer with FireFox: half an OS compared to a
browser pur sang.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Yes.


Well, the moment "hello world" produces an .exe of over 400kbyte, I do like
to know....

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Unfortunately, you ARE right here :-) OO really sucks with that.

Meindert



Re: what's a callback?
On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 22:53:28 +0100, "Frank Bemelman"

Quoted text here. Click to load it

They're not stupid, but, working as a team, they do manage to produce
prodigious amounts of very bad code. After a decade of effort, they
still seem incapable of preventing buffer overflow exploits, and every
generation of Windows runs slower and is more difficult to maintain.

I've seen a bit of the Windows source code, and it's a mess. Windows
is simply bad programming.

John



Re: what's a callback?
Quoted text here. Click to load it

It keeps pace with the hardware, it is not that it gets slower. On the
contrary. Win3.0 was typically found on 386sx running at 33MHz. Now that
was slow indeed. But if you go out to by a windows PC today, it is at
least 2GHz or better, and it does not run slow at all. Of course you
shouldn't upgrade software on old PC.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

As you once told, you don't write in C or C++, but only in 68K assembler
and Power Basic, IIRC. How can you be the judge of that? I've written
a dozen or so of windows applications, and my first attempts were indeed
a mess because there is a lot you need to know. But the more I have learnt
about it, the more I realize that there is no simple approach to make
all these little wonders happen. Embedded computing is kindergarten stuff,
compared to what's under the hood of windows. Okay, it crashes sometimes,
big deal.

There's a lot to complain about Windows, but I am reasonably happy with
it. The buffer overflow issue is blown out of proportion, it's not really
an issue. Heh, I don't even run antivirus software.

Most trouble I see is caused by non-microsoft application software.
Like Acrobat reader, still use 5.0, tried 6.0 and ditched it after
5 minutes.

--
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and 'invalid' when replying by email)









Re: what's a callback?
On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 17:30:07 +0100, "Frank Bemelman"

Quoted text here. Click to load it

The hardware struggles to keep up with the bloat of Windows. My
current PC has roughly a thousand times more compute power than my
first DOS machine, boots in about 20x the time, and crashes maybe 10x
as often. That's progress?

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Well, my stuff starts up instantly and runs 24/7 for decades without
crashing. The sources are more comment than code, so maintenance is
easy.

Every Windows source module has a mandatory header, that's supposed to
document the function, the author, and the revs. A typical module will
have some gibberish name, and in the header section called "Module
Function" the author generally fills in something like (I quote) "what
it says".

Comments are rare and, when they do exist, are often useless or
obscene.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

That's because the Windows paradigm was kluged up in a hurry, and got
worse from then on. Decades before Windows has cobbled up, real,
solid, multiuser, bulletproof OSs had been running for years...
literally running without crashing for years. DECs OSs used an event
flag structure that made programs, basicly, into synchronous state
machines; Windows uses an event-driven architecture that makes
programs into asynchronus-logic hairballs.

The irony is that both Windows and the x86 architecture were designed
entirely out of the mainstream of computing.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Well, that says it all. My products don't crash because I don't allow
them to. But then, I'm not getting rich off forced upgrades like
certain parties I could name. The only thing Windows does well is make
money; that's all it was intended to do.

John



Re: what's a callback?

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Actually one of the major problems with the Windows OS is that so many
Computer Science and bussiness manager types write it. They honestly believe
that grandma being able to use the computer is more important than the fact
that some computer expert will complain about a 20X wait for his computer to
boot. Personally I'd like a nice clean interface that doesn't use the hard
disk drive at all something along the lines of the old Commodore sytem where
the OS is all in ROM, though probably better make it flash RAM or some such
for the PC. I've thought of trying to develop a board that would use the
standard ATA interface and could save the OS to a memory set but I'm just a
computer programmer with some EET.


Charles



Re: what's a callback?


Quoted text here. Click to load it
believe
fact
to
where
such
a

Grandma *is* more important. Complaining about a 20x boot time is nonsense.
How many times do you boot? I turn on my computer each morning, get a
coffee,
turn on the radio and see what's in my inbox.

Windows takes a lot of time to boot, because it checks a lot of things
during
the boot. Depending on what you installed on top of it, it may take a while
longer. In a network, it takes another extra amount of time, getting a new
IP address perhaps, making connections to other PC's that were part of the
game the day before. Yes, that takes a bit of time.

As a result, you can swap hardware, or put your entire drive in a new
PC and it will work. Windows will discard old drivers for hardware that
has dissapeared and try to find new drivers for the new hardware. That
is incredibly impressive.


--
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and 'invalid' when replying by email)





Re: what's a callback?
On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 21:28:22 +0100, "Frank Bemelman"

Quoted text here. Click to load it


Microsoft didn't invent loadable drivers (hell, they barely *have*
loadable drivers) or 3rd party hardware or documented APIs. They just
stole others ideas, played catch-up by pre-announcing their products
years ahead of availability, turned out bug-ridden crap, charged
everybody to fix it, and ruthlessly and illegally leveraged the OS to
kill off the people whose ideas they stole.

Microsoft recently announced another ripoff of somebody else's market
and product, bundling it with the OS, thus killing the company that
pioneered the concept. When Bill was asked how the victim company
could possibly survive, he said that they should "learn to innovate."

John




Re: what's a callback?
Quoted text here. Click to load it
nonsense.
while
new
the

I agree that their business codes are nothing to be proud off. Well,
they got a nice fine from the EU.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3563697.stm

Still, peanuts for Bill. Perhaps the US government should squeeze
a bit more money out of Bill ;)

Maybe that is what really bothers you, their attitude. Their products
are not too bad though (anything after WIN3.x, that is).

--
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and 'invalid' when replying by email)




Re: what's a callback?
On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 23:22:57 +0100, "Frank Bemelman"

Quoted text here. Click to load it

No, a Win PC with some decent apps is a enormously useful productivity
tool. I just wish, from an engineering point of view, that it wasn't
such a crappy implementation, and from an ethics point of view, that
they weren't such greedy, vicious bastards. They have fifty billion
dollars, in cash, more than they can ever use; what they are about now
is power.

John



Re: what's a callback?
snipped-for-privacy@xs4all.invalid.nl says...
Quoted text here. Click to load it

I started on a DEC PDP-8/L with 4K of core memory.  Due to a never-
determined hardware problem, the FOCAL interpreter was often damaged
and had to be reloaded from paper tape.  We would key in the boot loader
using the front panel toggle switches, then start the tape, which took
approximately 20 minutes to load.  Someone had to babysit the paper tape
as it spooled out, keeping it in a nice fanfold so it wouldn't tangle.

So, yes, a three-minute startup is fine with me.

--Gene

Re: what's a callback?
On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 16:30:38 -0500, Gene S. Berkowitz

Quoted text here. Click to load it


I had a high-speed paper tape reader, so it wasn't bad. And Focal
seemed to be very reliable... I could run apps for weeks without
reloading. I got a lot of mileage out of Focal-11, too; I actually
contributed the random number generator to Rick Merrill (I did a
pseudorandom xor shift register in software, replacing his classic old
modulo code) and got acknowledged in the source code.

But it's not very fair to compare 35-year old iron running at 1 MHz to
modern stuff. But I recall loading Focal-11 from high-speed paper tape
in about the same time as my Windows boots today. I could load it from
magtape in a second or two.

John



Re: what's a callback?
Quoted text here. Click to load it
in
computer
hard
the
just
nonsense.
while
new
the

Ah, I once saw that about 30 years ago, on a sales show. The sales person
fiddling with the toggle switches for a minute perhaps, to start the
bootloader
and after that some moonlander game was started. At the time it was very
impressive. Only a few years later I got my apple ][. Costed me an arm and a
leg. Never regretted it. Didn't crash either, it just hang ;) Loved that
name of the 16 bit emulator, sweet16.

Those were the days - but I would't want to back.

--
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and 'invalid' when replying by email)






Re: what's a callback?

Quoted text here. Click to load it

And how often does Grandma change the hardware in her computer?  I don't
know about you, but I *know* when I make physical changes to my computer,
and would be quite happy to tell it that it needs to re-scan the hardware
 (USB and the like are obviously a different matter).

Last time I changed network cards on a Red Hat pc, I was informed on
boot-up that the network card had changed, and would I like to transfer
the old card's settings to the new card?  Worked perfectly, even though
the cards were from different manufacturers.  Last time I did the same
thing with windows (w2k), I was informed I had new hardware and the system
could look for suitable drivers.  Of course, I couldn't download them
because the PC wasn't online, as the network card had no drivers.  Thus I
had to figure out exactly what the new card was - this involved reading
chip types and other info and doing web searches (why can't manufacturers
put their name and the card type on the board?), followed by a download of
around 2.5 MB for a network driver !  This, of course, is too big for a
floppy and thus involved split zip files (or I could have burned a CD...).
 Once I'd finally got the drivers installed and working, I then had to
 manually re-configure the new card with my old (static) settings.

What was that you were saying about how impressive windows hardware
detection is?



Re: what's a callback?

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Well, I know from sorry first-hand experience you can't take a W2K
drive and plunk it down in a different computer and expect it to work.
It's the first time I've ever seen a _red_ Screen of Death. It was
some hysterical warning, which boiled down to, "I've Been Stolen!
Call Daddy!"

So I booted Slack Live! 10.0, mounted the NTFS partitions, and copied
everything by hand. Luckily, I was getting paid by the hour. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich


Site Timeline