You are much braver than I am. I would not even for moment dream of suggesting to develop a C++ compiler for the '51. The worst possible scenario is if they think it is a good idea and is willing to pay a reasonable hourly rate. I am sure there are people who would think it an intellectual challange to create a half usable C++ compiler for the '51.
Regards Anton Erasmus
Consider:
const int array_size = 10; int array[array_size];
The latter declaration is illegal (at file scope) in C, but perfectly legal C++. consts aren't (in C).
Regards,
-=Dave
-- Change is inevitable, progress is not.
-=Dave
C++ gave const a meaning that didn't fit into the C (or the intuitive) definition: read only. C++ seems to think it should be a replacement for #define or enum. const shouldn't be construed to be a poor man's macro. Somthing else (what? I don't know) should be used instead.
But hey! I'm just a poor compiler crafter looking for a bar fight. ;-)
-Rich
-- Richard Pennington Email: rich@pennware.com http://www.pennware.com ftp://ftp.pennware.com
You miss my point - if they bite we have an open ended contract, with the customer paying indefinitely for good hard work that produces nothing relevant. Any relevance to governmental contracts is purely coincidental :-)
-- "The most amazing achievement of the computer software industry is its continuing cancellation of the steady and staggering gains made by the computer hardware industry..." - Petroski
Actually, Stroustrup wanted the compiler to have *more* information for static type-checking. He lamented the fact that he couldn't completely remove the C pre-processor, altogether.
This usage in C++, that of a 'const int' for example, could (if the C+ linker would support it) remove the instance of storage if the address isn't taken. In that sense, it could be very useful without incurring a price. But I don't know of any C++ compiler/linker sets that are able to do this, so a const in C++ will take up a memory instance, even if the value is known by all modules at compile time and the address isn't ever needed, at all. Stroustrup, again, insists that it's certainly within the spec to eliminate const's whose addresses aren't taken by any module. But none I've used manage this.
Jon
That's sort of where I figured you were going when I suggested there might be confusion by your customer between C and C++.
I seem to have inadvertently ignited a small firestorm ;) Sorry about that.
Of cource if you do manage to steer them to an ARM variant (as you suggested in another post) then the question becomes if not moot, at least less pressing.
Robert
Of course. I even knew that. Sigh!
I suspect it was the use of overridden that threw me. I write C such that I would consider overriding const to be an error, but style conventions and illegal use are of course two quite different things.
Robert
Let's be nice, now! 8-)
Are we thinking of Ada for the `51?
The users want bloatware?
Quite right!
Look! More pessimism!
Despite your opinions concerning their storage requirements, would you not agree that current operating systems and applications better suit computer users' desires than did their earlier counterparts?
--
========================================================================
Michael Kesti | "And like, one and one don't make
| two, one and one make one."
mkesti@gv.net | - The Who, Bargain
Why not Befunge?
No, but if somebody wants to specify a development for it using Ada, and is willing to pay for best efforts development of an Ada compiler for it on a time + expenses basis, I would be willing to tackle it. No guarantees of success :-) I suspect I could find a subset (such as add/subtract integers) I could compile, but I think that is the limit.
Would you rather have that compiler for a PIC?
--
Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net)
Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
USE worldnet address!
I understand how const is used in C++. I was just suggesting a different syntax might have been a good idea to avoid unnecessary confusion with C.
I really would have liked it if C++ could really be a superset of C. That is, where things that look the same, act the same.
I know a lot of people who refuse to use C++ (we are embedded programmers after all!) who would really benefit from using a C++ compiler for "plain old C". Then, who knows, they might add a class or two!
In
know
will
that
taken
I'm currently working on a compiler system that will be able to do this, but since it is a project in my spare time, it will probably be available around 2020. ;-) There is more information on my web site... Follow the link to PFX.
-Rich
-- Richard Pennington Email: rich@pennware.com http://www.pennware.com ftp://ftp.pennware.com
No.... I don't use an OS for the vast majority of my programming.
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/\ /\/\/ snipped-for-privacy@phaedsys.org
In article , R Adsett writes
Not really.... you still have to find a good C++ compiler for ARM. The C compilers for ARM are still more efficient.
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/\ /\/\/ snipped-for-privacy@phaedsys.org
Most 'computer' users have not got the faintest idea what their desires are and get 'computers' because they think they should and do not bother to understand what they want to achieve. Then end up with using them as glorified typewriters, never using the high speed 3D rendering capabilities of the graphics card, full stereo sound system, rarely play a movie, let alone create their own DVD movie. Then there is the other half of the other things that the 'computers' come configured with. That is even if they could work out how to use them. Don't even get me going on why next to none to the 'users' actually know about backups and recovery plans for all their lost important documents and emails taht are mission critical.
--
Paul Carpenter | paul@pcserv.demon.co.uk
Main Site
GNU H8 & mailing list info.
For those web sites you hate.
Which users? Current operating systems hide port-level and memory-mapped I/O features from me and force me to jump through hoops to access them. Current operating systems are considerably less deterministic than older operating systems, forcing me to jump through hoops when I want to add some deterministic functionality to a program. Current operating systems mostly force me to run the system in an APA graphics mode, when most of my work could be better and faster achieved on a 132x43 text-mode screen requiring a couple of orders of magnitude less horsepower to move around than a
1280x1024x32bpp screen. Current operating systems load up a bunch of tasks I don't want to run, many of which provide security vulnerabilities. Current operating systems include built-in applications such as web browsers that nonremovably include software that is only used for displaying advertising and content-free eye candy, neither of which I wish to allow on my computer. At least one current operating system tries to force me to divulge to the manufacturer where and when I am installing it.If you want an Xbox, then buy an Xbox and rave about how its operating system is perfectly suitable for its intended function. The audience for PCs is considerably wider. You might as well say that all hammers should be painted pink and come with a 90-foot line that can't be removed, on the basis that many construction workers might find such a feature useful.
Excellent diatribe. But, before using the pink hammer, you have to send in the registration card (at your expense) and wait for the manufacturer to agree. If you attempt to strike a friend of the manufacturer the hammer will explode.
--
Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net)
Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
USE worldnet address!
There is a sort of ada port for the avr for avrgcc
Might be able to cobble it on to sdcc for pic and 8051 but then just wait for Chris Hills usual diatribe about sdcc :-)
Alex Gibson
I would like to object to the use of the phrase "Current operating systems." Linux is a current operating system that makes it easy to access port-level and memory-mapped I/O, works great in 132x43 text-mode, does not have a nonremovably web browser, and requires no registration of any kind.
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