Agilent now dumping its U.S. employees -- I'm going to boycott them - Page 6

Do you have a question? Post it now! No Registration Necessary

Translate This Thread From English to

Threaded View
Re: Agilent now dumping its U.S. employees -- I'm going to boycott them
oN 08-Jun-04, Alan Balmer said:

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Ah, but apparently, millions *do* believe the incredible Mr. Moore. Blind =
faith and gullibility have reached epic proportions!

--
Bill
Posted with XanaNews Version 1.16.3.1

Re: Agilent now dumping its U.S. employees -- I'm going to boycott them
Quoted text here. Click to load it

What was untrue or incorrect in the film?
BTW I have not seen it yet.


/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills  Staffs  England    /\/\/\/\/\
/\/\/ snipped-for-privacy@phaedsys.org       www.phaedsys.org \/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

Re: Agilent now dumping its U.S. employees -- I'm going to boycott them

Quoted text here. Click to load it
faith
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Here's one opinion.

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html



Re: Agilent now dumping its U.S. employees -- I'm going to boycott them
Quoted text here. Click to load it
Blind faith

I want to offer my congratulations to Jim and Alan for producing some
illuminating points on the Moore films.


Re: Agilent now dumping its U.S. employees -- I'm going to boycott them
Quoted text here. Click to load it

It is a cute page, but it is full of deceptions and false statements.
For instance it says that the Bowling film said that the NRA rushed
to Littleton after the killings and asserts that this is false.  I
tries to prove this by saying that they had planned their meeting
there long in advance.

In fact the film never claimed that they decided to come only after
the killings.  It even made it clear that they had planned their
meeting there long in advance.  That was in the film.  The point
Moore made was that they showed up for their conventional immediately
after the killings, ie. they did rush in after the killings even if
the timimg was only coincedental.  The point the film obviously
made was that it was rather insensitive of them to hold their
convention in the face of all the people dealing with the senseless
death of loved ones days before.

I found the page full of proofs of things that would have been
false had they been in the film, but they weren't in the film.
Of course I only saw it a couple of times in the threater and
a couple of times from a friends DVD so I probably noticed what
was really in there and what was not.  That page seems to be
a reaction to film that was never made.  It proceeds to prove
that the things that it mistakenly claims were in the film
were wrong.  But they weren't in the film, so it is rather
deceptive.

It complains that they used editing for effect.  Ah, films
require editing.  It claims that parts of different campaign
commercials were edited together  for effect.  I think that
is probably true.  But they films require editing, and without
it they would have no entertainment value or educational value
at all.  No one could possibly sit through even the hundreds of
hours of raw footage let alone all the film and campaign commercials
that were gleaned for the effect that the film was trying to make.

Also, most importantly, that film was about guns.  This thread was
about corporate downsizing and outsourcing of jobs.  I injected some
comments about the use of prison labor that I saw in a different
film by Moore directly related to the subject of this thread.

I think that companies that use prison labor and market products
for embedded computing is a relavent topic.  I really don't see
the connection to guns, or movies about guns.  That is about
as off-topic as the page about some film that someone 'saw in
their minds eye' was off-topic of the film Moore did about guns.

But outsourcing, downsizing, deceptive advertizing, etc. will
always remain hot button topics for many people and are likely
to digress into debates about guns or politics in usenet.

I thought it interesting also that usenet is not just a US
phenom.  It is worldwide.  If jobs left the US then they went
somewhere else.  The US loses, someone else gains.  That's the
pattern.  People in the US may be concerned, but people someone
else are likely to be happy about it.  I found it funny that
the thread was so US centric.

What about automation?  Robotics and embedded systems have
no doubt taken away menial jobs from American workers.  Does
that mean that people in this newsgroup are against the idea
of embedded systems and automation?

I just hope that people don't get so upset about these things
that the topic of gun violence does become on-topic to the
thread about corporate downsizeing and outsourcing.  Let's
hope the topics only have MM movies in common. ;-)

Best Wishes

Re: Agilent now dumping its U.S. employees -- I'm going to boycott them
On 10 Jun, in article

Quoted text here. Click to load it

From the other side of the pond only seeing the film once, that was my
view on *that* film. Also we tend to see after several shooting incidents
like Colombine, the NRA on the news very quickly and in the vicinity.

....

The web site like the film is just ANOTHER opinion, not fact, both
are opinions, based on some facts.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

The same could be said about ANY film/programme/documentary and sometimes
news coverage! Welcome to the media world.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

My thoughts and why I resisted posting before.

...

Quoted text here. Click to load it

It is just history repeating itself, look back over the centuries
and major market leaders in one industry that moved elsewhere can be
seen as global, and always will be.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Nobody wants to do menial jobs but will complain bitterly about
the number of immigrants (in *ANY* country) who are there, but are the
only ones willing to do the jobs!

--
Paul Carpenter        | snipped-for-privacy@pcserv.demon.co.uk
<http://www.pcserv.demon.co.uk/ Main Site
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: Agilent now dumping its U.S. employees -- I'm going to boycott them
On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 01:26:50 GMT, Spehro Pefhany

Quoted text here. Click to load it
They are barred from domestic trade in the usual sense, also. In every
state that I'm aware of, the sale of prison products is limited to
products purchased by the state or state-supported institutions with
taxpayer money (auto license plates are the classic example). It still
represents competition to other would-be suppliers of the same goods,
of course.

--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: Agilent now dumping its U.S. employees -- I'm going to boycott them

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Strange. Over here they are not. It is quite normal to have cables
assembled at the local prison. Since everyone can get their services,
which are more expensive than china BTW, prison work is not considered
distorting the market. The technology provided is limited as the prison
do not offer any infrastructure, the infrastructure is fully provided
by the customer, be that crimp tools, solder stations. And since the
customer has no relation to the worker, I dunno whether they ever meet,
that limits the value of the tools. BTW, not every convict is a badie.
Considering certain laws, it can be rather easy to be thrown into
prison. EG. the third time drunk driving gives 3 Month or so.

Rene
--
Ing.Buero R.Tschaggelar - http://www.ibrtses.com
& commercial newsgroups - http://www.talkto.net

Re: Agilent now dumping its U.S. employees -- I'm going to boycott them
oN 08-Jun-04, Alan Balmer said:

Quoted text here. Click to load it

And they are given first consideration as suppliers to the Fed
government, well ahead of private manufacturers. While that is arguably
separate from "domestic trade", it certainly impacts on commercial
producers.

--
Bill
Posted with XanaNews Version 1.16.3.1

Re: Agilent now dumping its U.S. employees -- I'm going to boycott them
snipped-for-privacy@att.net says...
Quoted text here. Click to load it

State prisoners in Oregon produce the Prison Blues line of denim
clothing, which is available to retailers both inside and outside
Oregon.

http://www.prisonblues.com/411.php

"Prison Blues® products are now sold throughout the United States, Japan
and Europe."

The prisoners earn from $6.80 to over $0.00 per hour---but 80% of their
wages go to pay restitution and incarceration costs.



Mark Borgerson


Re: Agilent now dumping its U.S. employees -- I'm going to boycott them
Quoted text here. Click to load it

TWA has inmates at the Ventura prison in California for booking reservaions.
Spalding in HI.
Microsoft in WA.
Edie Bauer in WA.
AT&T telemarketing in CO.

At least those were reported in Michael Moore's film 'the Big One.'
He even interviewed some of the rapists and murderers who said that
people give them lots of personal information over the phones and
who cautioned people to think twice about to whom they were giving
out their personal information.

Best Wishes

Re: Agilent now dumping its U.S. employees -- I'm going to boycott them

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Maybe Agilent isn't the criminal here. Maybe they held on as long as they
could and kept those American jobs right here in the United States for as
long as possible. Yet the longer and harder they fought to do so, the more
and more they lost. Lost profits. Lost market share. In the end, there was
no choice. If they were to stay in business at all, keep the doors open and
retain at least a few jobs for their loyal employees, they had no choice but
to outsource. I'm not saying that this is the case. But it could be. Its a
possibility. You can't punish Agilent for being the last defector by buying
products from a company who was one of the first.

---

Its hard to set personal circumstances aside and objectively look at this
issue of jobs flying out of this country. I've been hurt pretty bad by this
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: Agilent now dumping its U.S. employees -- I'm going to boycott them
: A recent article in the L.A. Times detailed what they're doing.
: http://www.portside.org/showpost.php?postid21%9
: In PDF format:
: http://www.cwalocal4250.org/outsourcing/binarydata/Outsourcing%20Ax.pdf

: I thought Agilent was supposed to be one of the good companies.
: They made a decent product.  One I'd be proud to own.
: Now they spit on American tech workers.

  You are overreacting.  This piece is an obvious tear jerker of the
worst case.  Sure, it sucks to be him, but...  The lesson of the day is
"Get over it!"

  We'll all find work in niche areas, at less pay, but hey, what is money?
Welcome to yet another round of changes.  It happens all the time.

  The word on the street from Agilent employees is that the company is
still the best one going to work for, even with this kind of thing going
on.  IT has been given to India and China, not the core Agilent stuff which
involves making cool instruments.  Remember that.

  Before anyone accuses me of insensitivity, let me say this:  I worked
for HP for 21 years before becoming a candidate for workforce reduction
program.  I too signed the "gag" agreement so I can't talk about it.  The
reality of it is that I was tired of my job anyway and now I'm out doing
what I really love to do, embedded hardware and software.  I have to learn
to drum up my own business, handle deadlines, quality control and manage
schedules.  I don't make half what I used to, but that can change and at
the end of the day I love what I do, so there are positive aspects too.

  We make our own fortunes and no one owes us a job.  Abraham Lincoln once
said "We are exactly as happy as we want to be."  Or something like that.
Go, get drunk, cuss at your clueless bosses and go be your own boss, the
final revenge.

IMO, YMMV, TANSTAAFL,
DLC

: OK.  I'm boycotting them.  I'm in the market for a bench power
: supply.   I looked at B&K, and Agilent.
:
http://www.bkprecision.com/www/np_searchmodel7.asp?lf=Single+Output+DC+Power+Supplies
: http://we.home.agilent.com/USeng/nav/-11813.0/pc.html

: Agilent looked like the better product.

: But now, I just can't do it.  That could be me.  I will not
: help a company that willfully targets and destroys its American
: workers.  To take away someone's job and bring in a complete
: foreign mercenary as a replacement is in fact a form of economic
: and physical genocide.   Agilent can just go to hell.

--
============================================================================
* Dennis Clark         snipped-for-privacy@frii.com                www.techtoystoday.com   *
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.

Site Timeline