RF Helps Dissociate H2 in Sea Water?

It sure won't. But even if it got anywhere near to the energy it uses it might be useful.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

EdV hath wroth:

Sea water? Could be the industrial wastes found in sewage that's doing the burning. This was in Erie, Pennsylvania? Where did he find the sea water, or was it Lake Erie water? Didn't Lake Erie once catch fire? I'm suspicious.

Duz anyone know what RF frequency and power levels were used? I wanna try it.

Ohio. Twice even ;-)

Tim

-- Deep Fryer: A very philosophical monk. Website @

This sounds like a crock. If they are dissociating hydrogen from oxygen, and burning the hydrogen in the resulting oxygen, the energy in and out is the same. If the reaction involves water and the bit of salt there, it could produce HCl and NaOH, but at a net energy cost. The most that could be happening is that they are vaporizing and ionizing the materials in there, making a rather expensive resistor load for the RF.

-- John

Ooh. Perpetual motion using the mysterious RF!!

Someone forgot to do a power budget on the thing. Unless God is in a really puckish mood and has decided to finally violate the laws of thermodynamics you'll get less energy from the burning hydrogen than you put in via the RF -- much less the energy you burn in the RF generator.

Don't they teach these science reporters any science?

"John Kanzius happened upon the discovery accidentally when he tried to desalinate seawater with a radio-frequency generator he developed to treat cancer."

Obviously multiply bogus.

John

Right--cancer cures need magnets.

Grins, James Arthur

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

Maybe I 'm missing something, but it seems this guy passed an electric current though salt water and produced H2. He used RF rather than the more usual DC but I can't see how this is any different from the electrolysis experiments I did at school.

I can't see how it will be any better than electrolysis using DC. In fact I think it will be a lot worse - at least with DC you can separate the hydrogen and oxygen.

you never know

Martin

Jeff Liebermann wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

a badly polluted river in Cleveland once caught fire,IIRC. Cleveland once was known as the "mistake on the lake".

Lake Erie never caught fire.

Sounds like a expensive way to stir and warm the mash.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

Good point, but I don't think that's what this Mr. Wizard's up to:

Cheers, James Arthur

Jim Yanik hath wroth:

Yes, I know. Just practicing some FUD and promoting suscpicion and paranoia.

TV video clip at:

Looks like John Kanzius lives on Sanibel Island, Florida, where salt water is commonly available. So much for the burning lake theory.

I've always been suspicious of pronoucements that are lacking in numbers. In this case, the frequency and power level of the RF are conspicuously absent. The RF generator or amplifier appears in the above video, but I can't identify the manufacturer. I also could not see an antenna or radiator. However, there was a frame showing the meter on the front panel, which indicates 1400 watts full scale. It's going to take a might big flame to generate that much input power. So much for perpetual motion. I wonder if anyone is checking for exessive RF exposure.

Ah, this video has a somewhat better photo of the amplifier.

Kanzius mumbles that it's a 13.56MHz transmitter.

Sure takes a lot of energy to excite a fluorescent tube. There's actually a transmitter in Alaska that you can stand beneath and will excite a fluro tube. I think its a 250kw transmitter.

Cheers

Not so obviously about the cancer cure. He is suggesting small bits of metal be stuck to the cancer cells (the tricky bit) and then RF to heat the cells with the metal bits. If the fist step can be done, they may be something to it. Some cancer cells can be chemically recognized by their surfaces.

MooseFET hath wroth:

Gold nanoparticles will bind to EFGR receptors found in great quanity on the surface of cancer cells. Normal cells also have them, but in much smaller quantities. The method is being currently being tested as a method of cancer detection. If Kanzius is successful, it may also turn into a method of treatment.

The gold nanoparticles can also be used to deliver drugs and DNA treatment to the cancer cells, while avoiding normal cells.

But how would microwaves desalinate water? You'd blast a tank of water with RF, and the salt would go... where?

And very high power microwave systems have used waveguide water loads, and water calorimeter-type power meters, for 60 years or more. I don't recall anyone mentioning hydrogen generation, much less net energy creation!

John