OT: Liars And Numbers

Here in Buffalo it is similar. When winter comes we can lose site of the Sun for weeks at a time. Overcast with a dusting of snow, day after day. (It can get depressing... I always tell myself that spring would not be so wonderful, without the previous gloom.)

George H.

I worked at a place out on the Hood Canal for about 25 years so am well acquainted with the weather in the Seattle area.

The natives have a special name for two days of rain followed by a sunny day.

They call it Saturday, Sunday , and Monday.

When you can see Mt. Rainier, you know it is about to rain. When you can not see Mt. Rainier, you know it is raining.

Actually the weather in the summer is not too bad. The average amount of rain varies greatly with the months. August gets almost no days of rain, while it rains almost every day in January.

Dan

Only for a little while, till your nose and cheeks freeze. Does tend to sting a bit when they warm up again, too. ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

When we lived in Vermont, a new neighbor just moved from Seattle. They were surprised that the weather was even worse than WA.

Are Observations Consistent Site-To-Site?

One major advantage of an automated observing system is consistency. Unlike human observers, all similarly configured automated systems measure the atmosphere the same way. ASOS is programmed to add remarks to the aviation observation to highlight significant changes or report important data. ASOS will create only a standard set of remarks concerning variable ceilings, visibility, precipitation, pressure changes and wind gusts. If the remarks are not included, sensors have not measured the condition.

By contrast, human observations are fraught with opportunities to provide inconsistent information. Observers at the same location will give different estimates of cloud heights and coverage. Human observers report mandatory remarks and also are allowed to provide "optional" information. Many of these "optional" remarks actually contribute to in-consistent observations.

etc...

The difference between an automated rainfall measurement and a manual measurement is that the multiple small errors found in automated systems, are replaced by a few rather large errors found in the manual system, as partially described above.

I believe I mentioned that in a previous posting. Quoting myself: When I was baby sitting several mountain top weather stations, getting accurate rainfall numbers was painful. One local mountain top had 3 professional quality weather stations within maybe 300 ft of each other. Cumulative rainfall varied about +/15%. In simpler terms, rainfall isn't uniform.

I believe that's what I said in a previous posting. Quoting myself: Much useful information can be obtained from observers, even though they do tend to take vacations, become ill, or are distracted. Most commonly, the observer data is used as a sanity check to detect failed or failing automated monitoring equipment.

Irrigation is a good use, but where 10x accuracy isn't really necessary.

For our use, the main interest was whether it was possible to work on a radio tower on top of the mountain. If it was raining, inside a cloud, or the wind was too strong, the tower climb would be considered hazardous and would be cancelled. It was not unusual to schedule a climb based on good weather in the morning, only to find that the weather had changed by noon. It was therefore important to watch the trends in what the wind was doing, and to a lesser extent, what the rain was doing. If the trend line showed a general increase, it was time to cancel the climb. Therefore, I needed numbers every 5 or 10 minutes to build a trend line. Doing it manually is not an option.

I'v never seen a person use so many words to say as little as you do...

You're confusing human error with the instrument. The scientific manual rain gauge is 10x more accurate than any crummy electronic gauge.

Okay, good that you get this...

The cost of the gauge is about the same and the reading takes about the same amount of time as with a cheap gauge, so it all comes free with the territory. The CoCoRaHS gauge is not that expensive.

Right- you really didn't even need a weather station.

In Vermont, the sun didn't shine from November to April, unless it was below -10F. Below that it was usually very clear. About mid-February, -20F days started looking pretty good.

n not see Mt. Rainier, you know it is raining. "

Sounds like Florida but probably not hot. I was down there three times and it rained every afternoon. y buddy down there told me that there are a coup le of hours of the day you just don't go anywhere.

This was the Orlando/Longwood area, I don't want to even think of what it i s like in the lowlands. I mean, even in Longwood which has a fairly high el evation for the state the ground is like it is always wet. To me it smelled mildewy all the time, it is something you have to get used to. And of cour se almost nobody has a basement.

In fact a guy down there made the news a few years ago floodproofing houses . His idea ? Put it up on stilts. I shit you not. Not so much just stilts, you could get walls and have another garage under the house. Such an invest ment would probably get you a discount on your house insurance. Car insuran ce not so much I would imagine unless put a garage up there as well.

I will say this much, if/when global warming gets really bad, Florida will be one of the first to notice.

Define horrible? I'm half-Vampire. I dislike sun :p

Michael

Seattle's your place, or maybe Anchorage.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

I did have time to write a shorter explanation, so I wrote a long one. Apologies to Mark Twain and others.

However, in deference to your complaint, I'll summarize my comments: "You are wrong. End of discussion". Is that acceptable?

Given sufficient care, you're probably correct. A manual dip stick or measuring tube is probably more accurate. However, that assumes some consistency in who's doing the measurement, how they do the measurement, how they handle the dip stick or measuring tube, eyesight, shaky hands, etc. Since you're probably the only one taking the readings, it's probably fairly consistent. Whether you are willing to tolerate some loss of accuracy in trade for consistency largely depends on what you're trying to accomplish.

Well, just to throw a wrench into the logic, I've seen rain density measurements done using RF path attenuation, usually at X-band (10GHz). There are variations in density which appear to get worse as one approaches ground level, where obstructions and wind turbulence creates all kinds of variations in rainfall. Sometimes, I wonder if I'm measuring the rainfall, or if I'm measuring the effects of obstructions and turbulence on the rainfall.

"CoCoRaHS Tutorial - How the rain gauge works" (4:15) Ummm... looks like a 3" or 4" dia funnel. Too small methinks. Do you really do all that every morning?

I was looking at a $600 rain gauge last night. Nice, but a little out of my price range.

Someone tried using the existing security cameras for weather reporting. It worked ok for detecting fog or rain, but not so great for wind. Same with small dust storms, that required cleaning the lens protectors after each storm. We tried windshield wipers on the camera covers, which only scratched the plastic cover. If you need weather before sunrise, you're stuck with viewing in the dark. The guy currently in charge of the various weather stations is doing his best to ignore the ongoing camera fiasco.

Maybe become a mushroom farmer.

The best one to ignore is fred bloggs... one of our resident village idiots who incessantly troll. ...Jim Thompson

Well at least you are scientific enough to realize things like that. These chicken littles with their sky is falling shit are not.

But just remember, rain is good. Rain makes corn and corn makes whiskey and whiskey makes girls frisky.

also makes then pregnant, even the ugly one's!

Jamie

Jim-out-of-touch-with-reality-Thompson gets it utterly wrong again. Fred Bloggs might not be as smart of Jim Thompson (though he's in the same ball-park) but he's a whole lot better informed (which isn't as difficult).

Jim Thompson doesn't like being shown up as not knowing what he is talking about, and he routinely kill-files people who injure his vanity by doing it.

That's the thing, there are Doppler weather radars all over the place now and you can see the real time replays on the internet, so no need for your weather station, cameras and whatnots...

e chicken littles with their sky is falling shit are not.

nd whiskey makes girls frisky.

Not at all scientific- Liebermann is stuck in the 80s or something. Weather related radar measurement has been a very well funded and active area of r esearch for decades now, and those advances in combination with advances in the RF and acquisition hardware have resulted in some very high performanc e systems with ready availability at fairly modest cost. When a modern Dopp ler reports rainfall, it will be rainfall. The days of a mental midget stuc k to an (overpriced) analog PPI display are over. The main reason for the i ncredible recent advancements in radar is that the technology is no longer driven by the scum-of-the-earth, useless, corrupt and super ignorant lo-IQ vermin in the military establishment, much more productive and intelligent elements of the scientific industrial establishment have received their fai r share of the pie.

I think you may mean Blaise Pascal. I think he's the one who wrote "I apologize for the long letter, but I did not have time to write you a short one." (In French, obviously.)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs