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Re: OT: Interesting study about fake news
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While the difference between a prison and a jail isn't as extreme as
the difference between a prisoner and a jailor there is a difference.

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Re: OT: Interesting study about fake news
On Sun, 01 Oct 2017 00:51:12 +0000, Jasen Betts wrote:


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Heavily depends on which country you're in. Even the words themselves  
mean different things in different countries.



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Re: OT: Interesting study about fake news
Jasen Betts wrote on 9/30/2017 8:51 PM:
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"Jail" is the vernacular for any incarceration.

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english-thesaurus/jail

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Rick C

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Re: OT: Interesting study about fake news
rickman wrote:
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    No. In other words, you're ignorant.

    Jails are operated by city or county law enforcement, and you can be  
kept n jail for 72 hours with even being charged. You can't be sentenced  
and put to death, in jail. Jail sentences are short.

    Prisons are run at the state or Federal level, and require you to be  
convicted of a crime, then sentenced to prison. Prison sentences are  
longer, up to and including life.

    Short military lockup is referred to as 'The Brig' or similar terms.  
That is for drunk drivers, fighting or other minor crimes.

    I was arrested while in the Army because a civilian had listed the  
wrong vehicle codes on my military driver's license. A couple phone  
calls by the head of my section revealed that almost half of the the  
soldiers in tech fields had invalid license for the same reason, so I  
never saw a cell, and the charges were dropped. I was driving the same  
bucket truck that I had taken the test in, yet the idiot still claimed  
that I was not qualified for that class of vehicle.

The original issue was that I ran a top sign. I told the MP I didn't see  
a sign. He pulled back a lot of branches on an big evergreen to show me  
the sign, then told me it was my fault for not knowing it was there. A  
genuine Barney Fife.


--  
Never piss off an Engineer!

They don't get mad.

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Re: OT: Interesting study about fake news
On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 18:04:43 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"

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Without a moral foundation, there is no basis for law.


--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics  


Re: OT: Interesting study about fake news
John Larkin wrote on 9/16/2017 7:23 PM:
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And yet while we suffer from a severe lack of morality in the eyes of many  
(and always have), we have no shortage of law.

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Rick C

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Re: OT: Interesting study about fake news
On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 16:23:37 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

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The king back in those days was sort of analogous to the Pope and was  
thought to have powers derived from God. He could therefore  
'legitimately' claim to rule through Divine Right.



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Re: OT: Interesting study about fake news
On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 8:04:51 AM UTC+10, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
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This is an over-simplification. The US constitution was inspired by the Moderate Enlightenment, which restricted the moral sense to those with enough money to afford a decent education.

It took the Radical Enlightenment to extend this to everybody, with the practical consequence that everybody had to get enough education to be able to relate their moral sense to the real world.

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Not exactly. The original idea was that you needed an expensive education before your ideas on the subject were worth any attention. The aristocracy and the bureaucracy and the clergy all got that.

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It's a set of rules that's clear enough to be understood, and consistent enough to be applied. Right and wrong come into it to the extent some rules seems to be inate - monkeys have an idea of fairness - but the major constraint is that it has to work.

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney


Re: OT: Interesting study about fake news
On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 11:16:46 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

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Could have fooled me. George W. Bush called the Constitution "just a  
goddamn piece of paper" and Obama also behaved like it didn't even exist,  
investing himself with kingly powers. What a pair of c***s.



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Re: OT: Interesting study about fake news
On 16/09/17 20:16, John Larkin wrote:
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And therein lies the problem.  It is common in the USA to consider the
constitution as though it is basically perfect, and that the word of the
founding fathers is holy.  Sure, it gets the occasional amendment and
adjustment, but there is an assumption that the underlying ideas,
principles and morals are unchangeable ideals - that they were the
"right" choice for the US people 200 years ago and that they are the
"right" choice now.  You don't take changes to the world, to your
country, or to your people into account.  You don't take into account
that the founding fathers primary interest was themselves - they wanted
to keep the power for themselves, and to make themselves richer.  (That
is no insult to them - it's a very natural human tendency.)

For contrast, in the Norwegian constitution (of a similar age to the
American one) there was a law banning Jews from the country.  It was not
until some time in the 1960's that it was completely removed - but apart
from during WWII under German occupation, no one had ever enforced it.

A country's constitution is an important and fundamental document that
guides the country's government, law and public offices.  But the people
who write them are not omniscient, nor unbiased, and they are certainly
not fortune tellers.  As all documents, they are products of their
times.  A country must either gradually reduce their reliance on their
constitution as new regulations are added, or they must be willing to
/radically/ update it to take account of changing times.


Re: OT: Interesting study about fake news
On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 5:06:24 PM UTC+10, David Brown wrote:
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 getting
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al

There's a specific historical point here. The people who wrote the US const
itution were fans of the Moderate Enlightenment. Benjamin Franklin and Thom
as Paine were more Radical Enlightenment thinkers, but they were safely out
 of the country while the constitution was being drafted. Franklin was back
 in the country when it was actually accepted (and didn't like it all that  
much, but took a active part in tinkering the product into a broadly accept
able document).

The Moderate Enlightenment were scared silly of "mob rule" and the US const
itution initially restricted power and voting rights to the 6% of the popul
ation who had property and could have afforded an education.

The Radical Enlightenment accepted that everybody had to have a voice, and  
accepted the responsibility for providing universal education. Every consti
tution written since the US one has been based on the Radical Enlightenment

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The US constitution has needed radical upgrading pretty much since it was w
ritten - it's conceptually half-baked - but since it enshrines the right of
 the people who own the country to run the country it's going to take a gre
at deal of enlightened self-interest to get it straightened out.

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney


Re: OT: Interesting study about fake news
On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 09:06:18 +0200, David Brown wrote:

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Even if it were, why is it *your* problem?? I see no end of foreigners on  
this group bitching about the Constitution and telling Americans how  
they've got to change it. What business is it of yours or theirs?? You  
have absolutely no legitimate businesses telling Americans how they  
should live and having the bare-faced audacity to defame the founding  
fathers.  
You are Bill Sloman and ICTFP.


Re: OT: Interesting study about fake news
On Tuesday, September 19, 2017 at 4:00:21 AM UTC+10, Cursitor Doom wrote:
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Cursitor Doom meant non-Americans. He lives in the UK and seems to be Briti
sh.

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Americans do take an aggressive interest in how other countries are run.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Mosaddegh

That wasn't the first coup they'd orchestrated, and it certainly isn't the  
last.

Pure self-preservation dictates that the rest of us pay attention to what t
he US is doing, and we have a strong interest in them having a rational and
 realistic government, which they don't seem to have at the moment and aren
't likely to get out of their antiquated constitutional arrangements.

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The founding fathers don't need us to defame them. The constitution they wr
ote did a perfectly adequate job, and it is a very well publicised document
. We don't much care how Americans live, to the extent that they confine th
emselves within their own borders, but we do care - and we have a perfect r
ight to care - when they throw their weight around outside those borders, a
s they are a little too prone to do

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 International Counterterrorism Fellows Program?

http://ismo.ndu.edu/Incoming-Students/The-International-Fellows-Programs/In
ternational-Counterterrorism-Fellows-CISA/History-of-the-ICTFP/

http://ismo.ndu.edu/Incoming-Students/The-International-Fellows-Programs/In
ternational-Counterterrorism-Fellows-CISA/

Not something I've got anything to do with. Ronald Reagan's idea of counter
-terrorism - Contragate - looked very like an encouragement of right-wing t
errorism in Central America to more objective observers (which wouldn't inc
lude you).

--  
Bill Sloman, Syndey

Re: OT: Interesting study about fake news
On 18/09/17 20:00, Cursitor Doom wrote:
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It is not /my/ problem - it is a problem for people in the USA.

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Foreigners on [sic] this group?  You do realise this is an international
newsgroup?  There are /no/ foreigners here.

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I did not tell you that you (Americans) had to change your constitution.
 All I said was that you have a big social problem caused by your belief
that your constitution and its principles are somehow holy, unchangeable
and morally "right".  You can change it, or change your attitude to it,
or keep your problems.  Some Americans, such as yourself, would need to
change a great deal.  Other Americans, not so much.

For most of the time, what you do is /your/ business.  Internationally,
however, some of what happens in the USA affects the rest of us.  Such
as when you elect for president a moron like Trump, it /is/ our
business.  We, the people of the world, have to suffer him.  And it is
your long outdated "electoral college" system that let him in.  If you
had had a sensible popular vote presidential election, with all
candidates available, then perhaps you would have got a president that
both Republicans and Democrats could have accepted (Ted Cruz?  Bernie
Sanders?  I don't know - but certainly not Trump or Clinton).

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There you go again.  You have turned your little history into a religion
- and consider "defamation" of your early rulers to be sacrilege, just
like when someone draws cartoons of Muhammad.

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Re: OT: Interesting study about fake news
On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 13:18:50 +0200, David Brown wrote:

[...]

That's enough of your nonsense. <*PLONK*>





Re: OT: Interesting study about fake news
On Wednesday, September 20, 2017 at 8:42:30 AM UTC+10, Cursitor Doom wrote:
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Cursitor Doom posts nonsense. David Brown doesn't, but Cursitor Doom hasn't got enough sense to realise this and objects to seeing stuff that overloads his shrunken brain.

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Re: OT: Interesting study about fake news
On Tuesday, September 19, 2017 at 5:42:30 PM UTC-5, Cursitor Doom wrote:
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Ha ha, funny joke. He was logical and making sense. You just, well, get upset (or pretend to) and cover your ears.

Re: OT: Interesting study about fake news
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote on 9/19/2017 7:54 PM:
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How do we get CD to plonk *everyone*?

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Rick C

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Re: OT: Interesting study about fake news
On Wednesday, September 20, 2017 at 10:37:10 AM UTC-5, rickman wrote:
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Tell him RT isn't considered to be anything close to unbiased news.

Re: OT: Interesting study about fake news
On 20/09/17 16:37, rickman wrote:
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:)

Call everybody Dave or Bill. (No, I'm not going
to reverse those names; too many fond associations)

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