Halbach Arrays

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I read that one of the innovations in the PM motors Tesla is using in the m
odel 3 is the Halbach array they use for the magnets.  Seems this greatly i
ncreases the magnetic field on one side of the magnets for little downside.
  The trick is being able to glue powerful magnets in an arrangement where  
they strongly repel one another.  The guy talking about them said when they
 first saw one of these they put it in a vice to hit it with a hammer and t
he pieces flew apart.  Lol  

Seems they glue four magnets together to make a single array.  Not sure how
 these Halbach arrays are arranged in the motor.  Seems the Tesla motor is  
much more powerful, lighter and cheaper to make than the motors used in the
 BMW i3 or the Chevy Bolt.  The weights differ by about 10% but there was a
 bit larger difference in price with the Tesla model 3 motor being the top  
dog across the board.  

  Rick C.

  - Get 6 months of free supercharging
  - Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Re: Halbach Arrays
wrote in message  
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My favorite neodymium magnet seller is K&J Magnetics.  They put out a brief  
newsletter each month, usually with a couple of short videos showing some  
detail of magnets and their applications.  Anyway, they had a little article  
on linear Halbach arrays which shows the basics of refrigerator magnets with  
a strong field on one side and little field on the other, and a bit on motor  
magnets (and in a second installment).  
https://www.kjmagnetics.com/blog.asp?p=halbach-arrays

--  
Regards,
Carl Ijames  


Re: Halbach Arrays
On Friday, January 11, 2019 at 11:39:58 PM UTC-5, Carl wrote:
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Nice, thanks.  I love Halbach arrays.    
Probably one of the cylindrical arrays at the bottom are used  
in motors.  

George H.  
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Re: Halbach Arrays
On 01/11/2019 11:27 PM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
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Volt and Bolt drivetrain uses ferrite magnets in the secondary motor,  
they weigh more and don't perform as good.

To get the performance numbers the Model 3 has at the price they're  
likely using neodymium magnets across the board and betting that any  
price volatility will be offset by lighter weight and lower overall cost
of the rest of the motor.

AFAIK most of the world's supply comes from China and they've been known  
to freeze exports completely from time to time.

That's less of a problem if most Model 3/future Tesla vehicles end up  
being primarily built in China which isn't really an option for GM.

Re: Halbach Arrays
On 01/12/2019 12:03 AM, bitrex wrote:
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Musk is a neoliberal globalist through and through the only reason Tesla  
is based in the US at the moment is because that's where the  
government/investors who give him money are.

The minute it becomes profitable to pack it all up and ship everything  
but the dealerships and a token Tesla North America office off to China  
he will. So long, and thanks for all the fish.

Re: Halbach Arrays
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 12:10:01 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
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s in  

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Maybe, but there are advantages to making cars in the US.  Why do you think
 the US automakers have been doing it all these years?  If they thought the
y could make more money selling Chinese made autos in the US they would in  
a heartbeat.  

  Rick C.

  -- Get 6 months of free supercharging
  -- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Re: Halbach Arrays
On 01/12/2019 12:36 AM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
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Chevy and Ford move a lot of product on jingoism; I think many American  
buyers would be ambivalent at the least about buying an F-150 or  
Silverado made in China. Price it right though and who knows I  
definitely don't think they'd sell zero China-150s at the right price.

Can't say I really blame Tesla I suppose, EVs are more abstractly  
popular in Asia and have more consistent government support. EV sales  
are likely to remain meh in the US for some time and government support  
is wildly inconsistent.

Re: Halbach Arrays
On 01/12/2019 01:25 AM, bitrex wrote:

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I would very much prefer to buy a Volt made in Detroit but if the  
Chinese were to make a clone with a few improvements like say charge  
twice as fast and price it at $25k, if it seemed at least no less  
well-made than the US variant I don't think I'd turn it down.


Re: Halbach Arrays
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 1:32:01 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
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sla
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 you  

hey  
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Yes, you might prefer a Volt, but not many others agree with you most notab
ly GM.  

Charging faster is not really an option until other batteries are available
.  Or are you talking about the slow charging of the Volt??  That option is
 off the table.  Hybrids are not in the future of EV driving.  

  Rick C.

  +- Get 6 months of free supercharging
  +- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Re: Halbach Arrays
On 01/12/2019 01:45 AM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
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No reason the battery technology it has now can't charge somewhat  
faster, the Leaf's Level 2 charger electronics can draw 6.6 kW. The Volt  
tops out at around 3.8 kW they cheeped out on the charger electronics a  
bit to hit a price have to save money for the gas-burner! Someone may  
design an aftermarket mod/hack at some point if it's feasible, dunno.

Re: Halbach Arrays
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 1:54:40 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
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Tesla
ing
hina

do you

 they
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an
.
otably GM.
able.  Or are you talking about the slow charging of the Volt??  That optio
n is off the table.  Hybrids are not in the future of EV driving.
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Sorry, I thought you were talking about real EVs.  In general the limitatio
n on charging is presently about 1C or in other words, 1 hour.  Cars that h
ave lower charge rates are not likely limited by the battery, but the charg
ers.  3.8 kW is about 15 amps at 240 volts.  Not sure why it would be that  
low.  The battery is good for 50 miles?  That would be around 10-15 kWh whi
ch should charge at about 10 kW rate or better, no?  Don't know why the 3.8
 kW rate...  

  Rick C.

  ++ Get 6 months of free supercharging
  ++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Re: Halbach Arrays
On 01/12/2019 02:22 AM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
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Probably because to go up on the charging rate from 3.8kW they'd have  
had to step up to the next beefier size of MOSFETs, beefier cable,  
different charge controller, etc. which would've added $200 to the parts  
cost and $1000 to the sale price

Re: Halbach Arrays
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 2:32:43 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
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n Tesla
thing
 China
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y do you

If they
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ican
ce.
 notably GM.
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ilable.  Or are you talking about the slow charging of the Volt??  That opt
ion is off the table.  Hybrids are not in the future of EV driving.
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lt
a
ation on charging is presently about 1C or in other words, 1 hour.  Cars th
at have lower charge rates are not likely limited by the battery, but the c
hargers.  3.8 kW is about 15 amps at 240 volts.  Not sure why it would be t
hat low.  The battery is good for 50 miles?  That would be around 10-15 kWh
 which should charge at about 10 kW rate or better, no?  Don't know why the
 3.8 kW rate...
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If you were talking about going from 30 amps to 60 amps I'd agree.  Bumping
 from 15 amps to 30 amps is more like a $30 upgrade in cost.  I know, I've  
been pricing similar components for charging and for 30 amps and under it i
s pretty minimal.  I think that is the reason why L2 charging units are mos
tly 30 amps.  I've seen none that are less and the ones that are more cost  
around $100 more.  Mostly it is the cable and the contactor.  Under 30 amps
 and it saves little.  

  Rick C.

  --+ Get 6 months of free supercharging
  --+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Re: Halbach Arrays
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 1:26:02 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
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n

ms this
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ets in

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iffer
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ost
own
la
a
hink the US automakers have been doing it all these years?  If they thought
 they could make more money selling Chinese made autos in the US they would
 in a heartbeat.
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I don't believe EV sales will remain "meh" in the US.  But for now Tesla is
 the only real EV company because they are the only one with a charging sol
ution.  For GM and the others, it's like trying to sell razors before you c
an buy blades.  But that will come in time.  The one report I've read estim
ated it will take the competition four years to get to where Tesla is today
.  So they are planning on major new EVs in that time period.  What if you  
designed an EV party and nobody came?  You'd have a Bolt!  

  Rick C.

  -+ Get 6 months of free supercharging
  -+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Re: Halbach Arrays
On 01/12/2019 01:42 AM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
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I see way more Bolts on the road around here than I do Model 3s...

Re: Halbach Arrays
On 01/12/2019 02:00 AM, bitrex wrote:
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I saw one Model 3 last week in a parking garage:

<https://www.dropbox.com/s/38v5n89bjlm8cv2/IMG_20181214_130053770_HDR.jpg?dl=0

Does it have an auto-park system I think something's wrong with it.

Re: Halbach Arrays
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Probably had a leaking side thruster:
 https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/16/17459224/tesla-roadster-elon-musk-spacex-falcon-copv

Re: Halbach Arrays
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 2:00:49 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
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known
up
esla
ng
ina
 think the US automakers have been doing it all these years?  If they thoug
ht they could make more money selling Chinese made autos in the US they wou
ld in a heartbeat.
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n
t
a is the only real EV company because they are the only one with a charging
 solution.  For GM and the others, it's like trying to sell razors before y
ou can buy blades.  But that will come in time.  The one report I've read e
stimated it will take the competition four years to get to where Tesla is t
oday.  So they are planning on major new EVs in that time period.  What if  
you designed an EV party and nobody came?  You'd have a Bolt!
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Yeah, I know.  No accounting for taste I guess.  

  Rick C.

  --- Get 6 months of free supercharging
  --- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Re: Halbach Arrays
On 01/12/2019 02:23 AM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

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It's an EV the missus will sign off on, show her a picture of a red  
Model 3 in a brochure and she's going to be like "You're getting a  
spooooorts car? :/"

Re: Halbach Arrays
On 01/12/2019 10:31 AM, bitrex wrote:
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"Honey I know it looks bad but since I was able to get my pre-order  
deposit in I'll be able to get it really soon! And it's only 45  
grand..." Lol you're done, son.

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