pcb: a great tool if there ever was one

The 2006 version is already old. We're working on another snapshot, but the CVS version is stable if you want to try the absolute latest features.

Note that there are two interfaces to try: gtk and lesstif. They each have their pros and cons, so you'll have to compare them to see which one you like.

./configure --with-gui=lesstif . . .

PCB can export ps, eps, gerber, png, gif, and jpg. I use ps for print, eps for other things (including converting to png sometimes). EPS can be embedded in openoffice docs.

Zoom in/out should be on the scroll wheel.

You're welcome!

What netlist format does it use?

--

    Boris Mohar

gschem has multiple netlist formats it can produce. See this old page:

The one PCB uses looks like this:

HUMID TR504-1 TB500-6 COOL TR503-1 TB500-4 Z4_IO1 SMD402-2 LC401-1 U4-6 Z3_IO2 SMD352-2 LC350-1 U4-4 Z3_IO1 SMD302-2 LC301-1 U4-3 Z4_IO2 SMD452-2 LC450-1 U4-1 Z2_IO1 SMD202-2 LC201-1 U3-6 Z1_IO2 SMD152-2 LC150-1 U3-4 Z1_IO1 SMD102-2 LC101-1 U3-3 Z2_IO2 SMD252-2 LC250-1 U3-1 LINE60HZ U500-23 U500-11 R51-1 U50-4 unnamed_net1 LED50-2 R50-2 U50-1 EGND LC400-2 LC450-2 LC451-2 LC401-2 LC300-2 LC350-2 LC351-2 LC301-2 LC200-2 LC250-2 LC251-2 LC201-2 LC100-2 LC150-2 LC151-2 LC101-2 pad2-1 VBATT C16-2 U10-30 U10-29 U10-28 TPVB-1 CR2-2

+3.3V R450-2 R472-2 R471-2 R470-2 U401-8 R400-2 R401-2 C400-2 U400-7 R350-2 R372-2 R371-2 R370-2 U301-8 R300-2 R301-2 C300-2 U300-7 R250-2 R272-2 R271-2 R270-2 U201-8 R200-2 R201-2 C200-2 U200-7 R150-2 \\ R172-2 R171-2 R170-2 U101-8 R100-2 R101-2 C100-2 U100-7 R11-2 R10-2 C18-2 U12-16 C17-2 U11-16 C500-2 U500-7 TP3.3V-1 R51-2 C6-1 U2-2 GND Q491-2 Q490-2 Q391-2 Q390-2 Q291-2 Q290-2 Q191-2 Q190-2 R403-1 R453-1 R456-1 SMD453-1 T451-S U401-4 U402-12 LC451-1 R406-1 R404-1 SMD403-1 T401-S Y401-2 C400-1 U400-5 R303-1 R353-1 R356-1 SMD353-1

But they totally destroyed the "grid" function. If I edit the ~preferences file and set a grid value of 16mil it doesnt hold between zoom in/zoom out

When I open the .pcb layout file (grid setting IS 16mil). Once I zoom in and zoom out it goes between 100mil and something like 10 mil. Thats INSANE

If I save my .pcb layout file and reload it the grid setting of 16mil is gone PERMANENTLY

Also "Enable Visible Grid" doesnt go into affect. I have to click a few other silly buttons to see the grid dots that I use to position IC's

All in all I am going back to pcb20050127

No, using a VERY OLD version of pcb is insane. You've mentioned this bug before, and I've told you before that it doesn't happen. Maybe it happened in the one specific version you insist on using, but it doesn't happen to anyone else. Please upgrade.

In the current version of pcb, the grid points are plotted at the grid setting, unless you zoom too far out then they're not plotted at all.

Yeah I noticed this too and wondered why it was happening. When I check off "Enable Grid" in pcb-20050315 the horizontal/vertical grid lines appear. When I zoom in or out, the distance between any two lines (vertical or horizontal) == my grid setting. Helps me align objects.

However on the new pcb-20060822 this doesnt hold up well. the grid distance varies with zoom -- and THATS A BAD IDEA. grid distance has nothing to do with zoom (in or out) and should remain a constant. I dont know why this was changed

You mean pcb-20050315 dont you? :)

Huh? The grid measures the board. A 25 mil grid shows you 25 mils on the board. Do you really want a SCREEN grid? One that has grid points at specific screen coordinates, no matter where or how big the board is?

What the old versions used to do is show you a partial grid, like every other (or every 10th) grid point, when you zoomed way out. There was an indicator on the status line that said what "grid scale" you were seeing. But, the grid was always relative to the board, not the screen.

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Notice those two screen shots. Its the same pcb layout At different zoom levels in pcb-20050315.tar.gz.

1:1 zoom down to 1:8 ... in each case the distance between any two grid lines is the same 16 mil I set it up as. Again this comes in real handy because I like to position my parts relative to each other .. I like it neat and coordinates matter ... having the grid vary (like with the new pcb-2006) is a bit of an unwelcome surprise.

I loved being able to put one part at coordinate 100,200 and the next at coordinate 256,200 following the grid lines. And to be able to zoom up close to run traces and add larger components following the grid spacing

Dont know if any of this makes sense. But unlike Anubis I use this for hobby mostly

In those two screen shots, the grid is a BOARD grid, not a SCREEN grid. For example, there are two grid units between blue lines, in both pictures. This is a BOARD grid. This is what PCB does today, too.

If you had a SCREEN grid, then if you zoom in 1.1x you'd get 1.1x as many dots between traces.

Next time, please make both screenshots from the same part of the board ;-)

Also, you can use Ctrl-M to set a "user origin" so you can measure between things, including grid marks.

DJ I cant really argue with you because

1) you are a developer, you know all the innards that I dont 2) I use PCB to do hobby work and I dont know all the technical jargon, I just know what helps me make my prototype PCB's

Having said that I can tell you that (unless I mis understood something) PCB 20060822.tar.gz fails here:

1) when I zoom in then out ... it replaces my grid spacing value and the space between grid horizontal/vertical lines 2) when I zoom in OR out ... there are no grid lines (horizontal or vertical)

PCB 2005 0315.tar.gz DOES NOT suffer from the above problems

Trust me on this dude, I opened an old project under both programs a few days ago. And I retested it before I put up those screen shots.

When Ill get home Ill get you screen shots of 2006 0822

Misunderstandings are certainly a viable excuse, for either of us :-)

I know of a known bug in the gtk GUI code, where there is no grid when you flip the board over.

20050315 was based on the Xaw (Athena) widgets. It used a board grid. If you zoomed out far enough, it displayed only every other grid point, but the snap grid stayed the same. 20060822 is HID-based, so you can choose gtk or lesstif as your GUI. It also uses a board grid, just like 20050315, but doesn't do the "every other grid point" thing. If you flip the board over, the gtk GUI shows no grid at all, a bug we've since fixed. I just downloaded it and tried 20060822, and it seems to work just fine aside from that one bug.

For all versions, if you zoom far enough out, it doesn't bother printing the grid as the dots would just be too close together.

I was confused because your screen shots show the same as what pcb does now, which IMHO is what it's supposed to do.

Ok.

I'd be interested in comparing with the current CVS, too, as we're getting close to releasing a new snapshot.