Who Killed the Electric Car?

I don't recall the exact total cost but I think it was about $150,000. That did not include legal fees and time wasted dealing with PG&E nonsense.

No financing that I know of on this system.

Typical production is about 15kw-hr/day. See graphs and visually guess the average delivered power:

Non-tracking vverage hours equivalent to full sunlight is about 4.5 hrs in Santa Cruz County. That yields: 15kw * 4.5 hrs/day = 68kw-hr/day

PG&E rates vary with usage and season. The cost to charge the fleet of electric vehicles would have placed them in nearly the highest rates. See:

That's the current residential rates. My guess is that electricity would cost about $0.30/kw-hr at the highest rate. 68Kw-hr/day * $0.30/kw-hr = $20/day

The owner indicates that the calculated break even point is 18 years out of a 30 year lifetime. The higher prices of electricity will make the break even point somewhat sooner. I don't have all the numbers necessary to verify that. I certainly won't buy into anything that takes 18 years to break even as I don't expect to live that long. I agree that it's not very practical (unless you include government subsidies and rebates), but it's a start.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558            jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
# http://802.11junk.com               jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com               AE6KS

A lot of assets get crushed on account of the corporate tax code and accounting rules. I vividly remember 1992, when IBM got into the glue really badly--we crushed a whole lot of brand new equipment, all paid for and everything, because our budgets were being slashed and it was either keep the people or keep the equipment--which had to have the depreciation paid. The waste was astronomical, but the management was in a bind and did their best with the choices available.

Cheers,

Phil Hobbs

For many (indeed most) people, 2 cars aren't a practical option.

What's a 'Nikki' ?

Graham

Hybrid, not hydrogen. Actually PHEVs are the best. The P being for 'plug in' so it can be recharged from both the electricity mains and its internal (small) ICE.

Graham

Hydrogen is a scam. And highly explosive and difficult to store and 101 other bad things.

It currently comes mainly from fossil fuels of course !

Graham

It completely misses the point.

Required to do so, GM went on to make the EV-1. It used lead acid batteries which held 0.4% as much energy as the same weight of gasoline. Thus the EV-1 weighed 2970 lbs, 1175 lbs of which were the batteries. The resulting range was 90/70 miles hwy/city. To achieve this, the tiny two-seater also had to have the record lowest CD, the most advanced powertrain of the day, and a cost of $80,000 (they were only leased to consumers).

The article concludes:

?In the end, though, the price wasn?t an issue. The reality is the EV1 was hostage to a technology the engineers knew from the get-go just wasn?t able to do the job Roger Smith and the California Air Resources Board believed it could. That?s what killed the electric car.?

Graham

They've been cracking on it quite some time. e.g.

In the biggest news since the initial concept announcement, GM vice-chairman Bob Lutz confirmed that in fact the first Chevy Volt prototype, with the full lithium-ion battery pack has hit the test track.

He said ?It is reliably meeting its objectives. Even with a rough calibration, even with the wrong drive unit, the wrong body, etc. etc., it has been hitting its

40 miles on electric power."

And GM Europe are working on the Opel Flextreme which will have a diesel generator for even higher efficiency.

That's some electric motor and generator.

Graham

Non-competitive paradises like Cuba and North Korea? They certainly aren't suffering from glutted super-highways or packed shopping-center parking lots. And they have excellent energy conservation techniques: the power is only on a few hours a day.

John

A 30kW peak output PV solar array would cost somewhere in the region of $120,000 in panels alone by my estimation yet would only provide around

120kWh of electricity daily (worth around $12) on average. Factor in financing costs and it simply will NEVER 'pay back'

Scale that down to a 12kWh EV battery pack daily recharge and it would still cost you $12,000 PLUS and the associated installation, inverter etc, say $20k overall. Yet it would only cost about $1.20 for that daily recharge from the mains.

Graham

A small business can expense about $120K a year in equipment purchases. The big boys have to show equipment and real estate and improvements as assets, ie as taxable profit, which the public doesn't generally understand. No wonder we export jobs.

But in the 1992 situation, they could have had a garage sale for employees, got rid of the stuff at a suitable loss, and made some employees very happy. I think.

John

No car of this ilk can be a viable commercial venture on the basis of a couple of thousand sales !

Graham

That's ok, I just got a notice that National Grid is hiking electric rates in RI again. It's bad enough that with the combined distribution and generation charges we pay 14.5 cents per kWh. I don't know how much more I can bear of this.

Deregulation, yeah it's only good for the company not for the people.

Geeze, then don't buy an EV!

It's simple, an EV car has a certain spec, if that spec doesn't meet your anticipated requirements then don't buy it. Just the same as any other car or bike or whatever.

Who said I had anything against HEV's? I don't.

I just like EV's better, I think they are cool. I'd prefer to have an electric only car. They aren't for everyone, just like anything else, but that doesn't mean they are crap and shouldn't be available for those that want them.

Dave.

That is a bit more than presumptuous.

And that is near the a reasonable objective.

Typical.

Also typical.

Typical.

Maybe you could be starting to get it.

Peoole always for some reason assume that there are only 3 Car manufactures in the world and that somehow they have all got together in some to way conspire to not make electric cars. The sad fact is that no one is making electric cars, at least not electric cars that people want to buy. Why arnt some of the Asian manufacturers like Hyundai or Daewoo making electric cars. Same reason GM isnt, they arnt viable yet, and they wont be viable until someone invents a low cost hi energy density battery. Lithium Ions dont even come close .

Have you ever wondered why Toyota wont mass produce a PHEV version of the Prius. They have made one.

That's probably true, but what would I do with a $2m copper dep tool?

Cheers,

Phil Hobbs

To tell vast and extravagant lies about the EV1 ? No I hadn't missed that at all.

Highly relevant to the motive power required.

And how exactly is it irrelevant ?

Only if you also have a second car. And as long as you NEVER find your plans changed and need to do a longer trip.

You can't be assured of conveniently recharging in any of those places.

The myth that it'll get cheaper 'just like that'. IThat's simply inorant nonsense.

No ridiculous lengths were required. The cars were always the property of GM.

Oh poor diddums.

What a stupid comment !

Graham

The State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations to be precise.

You wouldn't believe how upset the "Plantations" part makes certain people.

That is way past remarkably crappy motor and generator efficiencies. Both are typically each 95 to 98 percent efficient. Hell the antique "Molly Long Legs" topped 99%.