Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London - Page 18

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Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
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slightly similar but different tale about ISO requiring that work on
networking standards had to conform to OSI model. I was involved in
taking HSP (high-speed networking) protocol to x3s3.3 (US iso chartered
committee for networking standards). It was rejected because:

1) it went directly from transport/level four to LAN/MAC ... bypassing
network/leve three ... violating OSI model

2) it supporting "internetworking" ... a non-existant layer
in the OSI model (approx. between transport/networking)

3) it went directly to LAN/MAC interface ... a non-existant interface in
the OSI model (sitting approx. in the middle of layer 3 networking).

one of the other differences between ISO and IETF that has been
periodically highlighted is that IETF (aka internet standards) requires
that interoperable (different) implementations be demonstrated before
progressing in the standards process. ISO can pass standards for things
that have never been implemented (and potentially are impossible to
implement).

misc. past posts mentioning HSP, ISO, OSI, etc
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#xtphsp

note that fed. gov. in the late 80s was mandating that internet be
eliminated and replaced with ISO (aka GOSIP).

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London


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The first 3 layers of X.25 were not too bad, possibly because people had
implemented them.  Although I did find that selective rejection at level
2 did not work.

Andrew Swallow

Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 16:38:46 +0000 (UTC), Roland Hutchinson

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Still, the ISO have lots of standards, they don't all stick. That's
the great thing about standards etc.

Can you have an ISO standard that only one company would be allowed to
implement? Or does this mean they're publishing their hidden APIs and
file specifications?

---------------------------------------------------------------------

"hey let's educate the brutes, we know we are superior to them anyway,
just through genetics, we are gentically superior to the working
class. They are a shaved monkey. If we educate them, they will be able
to read instructions, turn up on time and man the conveyor belts,
sorted."     #    

Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.co.uk (greenaum) writes:

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To the best of my knowledge, there is no requirement that an ISO
standard not rely on patented technologies, nor any requirement that a
company with patented technologies make them available to implementers.
So yes, it's possible to have an ISO standard that only one company can
implement.

Of course, OOXML serves as an example of an ISO standard that *no*
company has been able to implement at present.
--
As we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should
be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours;
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Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
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Is that an ISO standard?  I thought it was ECMA...

scott

Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
snipped-for-privacy@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:

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ISO/IEC 25900 (apparently it was first standardized by Ecma; the ISO
standard is a later version).
--
As we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should
be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours;
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Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
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ISO is notoriously weak on this point. ITU at least requires patent
holders to either enter their patents into the public domain, or make
a standard-wide consortium selling patent rights without prejudice.
So you can buy rights for e.g. G.729 from one place at a fixed price.
ITU also bans patent renewals. So on January 7th 2015 all the G.729
era stuff is free.

IETF does not accept patent enforcement in standards.

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Both.

-- mrr

Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
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Perhaps the OOXML had a double oophorectomy... ;-)

--
+----------------------------------------+
|     Charles and Francis Richmond       |
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Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 15:04:28 -0500, Peter Flass

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They tried to read it but it was in a language noone understands. It
isn't really 6000 pages long, just 5 when you actually read it. And it
contains 7 previous versions, bits of other standards, and the credit
card details of most of the committee.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

"hey let's educate the brutes, we know we are superior to them anyway,
just through genetics, we are gentically superior to the working
class. They are a shaved monkey. If we educate them, they will be able
to read instructions, turn up on time and man the conveyor belts,
sorted."     #    

Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
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There have been ages since I couldn't read a document. It still
happens all the time that it formats strangely. But that happens
on other MS installations as well; where the setup for the
details is different from what the original author intended.

I meet this all the time as a consultant, working with customers
and customers' customers that have all sorts of different layouts.

And I am often chosen to be the one that generates these "microsoft"
documents, because whatever is generated when the open tools save
as "windows" formats and prints well on all the windows and mac
platforms. I just use ooffice, koffice, abiword or pages and
save in "windows 97" format.

If you need more formatting than what the windows 97 format
gives you, then you need another tool, like a typesetter (TeX), or
an editor for clip-art(inkscape) or an image editor (gimp), or
a pdf (hundreds of tools).

There was a change in this tide around 2006. This was when
Microsoft got tangled in their own web of proprietariness and
incompatible formats.

The defining moment was when I plugged a MICROSOFT brand mouse
into debian, and debian asked 'new mouse "Microsoft ..model" detected.
Do you want to make this your primary pointing device? (Y/N/Defer)' [1]
but the next to latest windows model gave a "unknown hardware
detected. Insert hardware diskette" (and none was found in their
packaging). [2]

[1] And the mouse was perfectly functional, it just took second fiddle
when multiple mice were moved. [2] And the mouse did NOT work.

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We have come a long way. Primary thanks to the EU commision
who have forced MS to publish detailed specifications into the
public domain for every bit they force on us.

This should have been the US Judge, but someone padded the
coffers of some politicians.

-- mrr

Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London

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re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011b.html#4 Rare Apple I computer sells for
$216,000 in Londn

regarding Melinda's pages with some mainframe historic documents moving
... there was some comment that princeton was removing her pages because
of possible hate crimes issues ... over her comments about MVS.
http://web.me.com/melinda.varian /

she had a multi-file postscript version that was many tens of megabytes
(with lots of pictures) that I converted to PDF (4mbytes) and did an
awz/kindle conversion. frequently kindle conversion becomes smaller file
... but with all the images, the kindle version is twice as large
(9mbytes, as pdf).

other of the PDF files with figures that are line-drawings using
characters didn't convert nearly as well (and converted to smaller
files) for kindle ... with the characters in the drawings being
"flowed".

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
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Heavy breathing aint gunna save your bacon.

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Duh. NTFS support etc is perfectly possible anyway.

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were

How odd that plenty managed to work them out anyway. It aint rocket science,
stupid.

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by MS.

How odd that so many did anyway.

Try again.



Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
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I remember the "Works" and "Orifice" incompatability. Strange both were M$.



Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
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I think Works originally wasn't. -- Joe
--
Joe Thompson -
E-mail addresses in headers are valid. | http://www.orion-com.com /
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Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
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That was probably intentional.  If "works" could read and write orfice
documents, how many would buy the more expensive option?

Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London

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formats were
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stupid.
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ble$$ed by MS.
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How much odder that even Microsoft software fails to correctly interpret
Word documents across versions.
--
As we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should
be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours;
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Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London

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That's not odd at all.  That's how Microsoft forces people to upgrade
and breaks open source compatibility.  Being able to get away with
that kind of stunt is one way you can know they have a monopoly.

-- Patrick

Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London