Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London - Page 16

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Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
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I never got that good.  We bought a PDP-10 before I got that proficient
with reading holes.  The system spoiled me forever after that.

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I think that was a common practice becuase of slow assemblies.

I wonder if that (inserting cards in the deck) influenced how DDT
was written to work?

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that must have been fun.

/BAH

Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
(jmfbahciv) writes:

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Yup.  We had a large production program that I'd patch until the
whole thing fell apart - only then would I try to wheedle the 40
minutes of machine time that it took to re-assemble it.

I finally wrote my own assembler.  Although it had a number of very
nice features that were missing from the stock assembler, its primary
goal (which I achieved) was to run twice as fast.  It was a bit easier
to scrounge 20 minutes of machine time than 40.

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Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
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re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010p.html#11 Rare Apple I computer sells for
$216,000 in London

I had the machine time ... since I got 48hrs straight every weekend ...
it was that it was usually faster to patch it than re-assemble.

I had conditional assembly ... one that ran stand-alone ... with its own
device drivers, interrupt handlers, etc that assembled in approx.  30
mins ... and the one that ran under os/360 using open/close, read/write
and DCB macros that assembled in approx. an hour (on 360/30) ... the DCB
macros taking 5-6 mins elapsed time each ... it was possible to see it
in the front panel lights when it had hit a DCB macro.

the folklore was that the person doing opcode lookup assembler routine
had been told that it had to be done in 256 bytes (or some such) ... so
the lookup table was reloaded from disk on each statement. the assembler
got much faster when somebody improved opcode lookup (using the memory
to keep the table loaded).

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
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Curious (20 min vs 40 min).  Could make a guess of how many minutes
were the threshold?  30 mins?

/BAH

Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
(jmfbahciv) writes:

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I don't think there was a threshold so much as programmers had the
lowest priority for machine time, and the quicker I could get in and
out, the more likely I could wheedle access.

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Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
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Wheedling worked?  :-)

/BAH

Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
(jmfbahciv) writes:

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Sometimes.  At other times a more direct approach was more effective:
"Do you want this fix or not?"

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Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
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Yeah... You could say:  "Okay, I don't really need to put in this
software fix.  Only 40% of the paychecks will come out wrong, and
we can fix all that later..."   :-)

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Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
(Charles Richmond) writes:

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It's sad commentary (and probably warped my mind) that I would
welcome emergencies because it was the one time when I could
demand - and get - as much machine time as I needed.

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Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
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The plain truth, Charlie, is that you the programmer get *no* respect:

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;"

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|     Charles and Francis Richmond       |
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Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London


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Bert Shaw was the old blacksmith -- about the age then that I am now
-- who got me hooked on beating hot iron. He'd retired, saying he was
too old to do "real blacksmithing" but was offered a position as
resident artist at an art and craft center.  He took this up with glee
as he got to forge "little stuff" -- perfect reproductions of colonial
hardware -- and tell yarns and lies to the visitors.

In the course of time, one of the center honchos arranged for
U. Mass. to award Bert an honorary doctorate.  Instead of framing the
document, he spiked it to a post in the shop with a 16 penny nail.

People such as I, ignorant as I was then of smithing or of art, he
treated with good humor and kindness.  But occasionally, academics,
high-art types, biz dudes and the like would come in and show Bert no
respect, with "Say, Bert <this>" and "Oh, Bert, <that>".  Then he
would take his horrible wrinkly cigar out of his mouth, spit on the
flood in a disgustingly drooly sort of way, then point to the now
sooty parchment and say, "That will be 'Doctor Shaw", if you don't
mind."

I'm not sure how a programmer could turn this yarn to advantage, what
with lacking a handy wooden post, smoking rules and so on.  Maybe
Scott Adams could work on it.


--
Mike Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada

Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
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What did you do, replace their sequential search of the symbol
table with a hash or an AVL tree???

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Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
(Charles Richmond) writes:

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I've always been a big fan of insertion sorts for such things -
then I can use a binary search.  But I don't think that was the
main reason my assembler was so much faster.  Univac's assembler
was heavily I/O-bound; it must have been doing a lot of passes,
or was keeping too much stuff on disk.  The binary had 40 overlays
or so.  Mine consisted of 4 phases, with one overlay each for the
second, third and fourth phases.  The first phase read the source
file and expanded macros, the second one read the expanded code and
built the symbol table, the third read the expanded code again and
generated the listing, object code, and cross-reference data, and
the fourth sorted and printed the cross-reference data.

If I was assembling a program from a card deck, the first pass
worked directly from the card input without reading it into a
disk file first.  You could hear the card reader stutter or pause
at each macro.  The second phase ran in about the time it took the
card reader motor to time out and shut down, at which point the
printer fired up and started cranking out the listing.

This was on the Univac 9300, although I used the same principles
when I wrote my OS/3 assembler.  Rumour has it that Univac's OS/3
assembler was a hacked version of IBM's DOS/360 assembler, whose
source code somebody found in the trunk of a car.  Another rumour
states that IBM wanted it found.  :-)

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Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
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Wota terminal fuckwit.



Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
Joe Pfeiffer wrote just the puerile shit thats all it can ever manage.



Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London

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You use that word a lot.  I don' think it means what you think it
means.

OK, I'm done.  This is just too easy.
--
As we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should
be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours;
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Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
Joe Pfeiffer wrote just the puerile shit thats all it can ever manage.



Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
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We had customers like him and had to figure out ways to train the untrainable.
All in all, we got pretty good at that kind of training.

/BAH

Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London
Some gutless fuckwit desperately cowering behind jmfbahciv
wrote just the puerile silly shit any 2 year old could leave for dead.



Re: Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London

snipped-for-privacy@NOT.AT.Arargh.com writes: