Early compact fluoro failure - Philips - Page 2

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Nobody is Stupider than Sylvia Else

"Nobody is Stupider than Sylvia Else"

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** Not one bit true.

The pics show nothing that would cause early failure.

Just another boring, fuckwit troll form the maddest bitch in Sydney.





....   Phil





Re: Nobody is Stupider than Sylvia Else
These pictures show absolutely nothing, why are you even bothering. Just
another hobbyist who thinks that they are an expert but in reality not
having a clue.


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Re: Nobody is Stupider than Sylvia Else
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OK, since Phil can't, perhaps you'd care to explain why shorting of
poorly insulated wires either to each other, or to the underside of the
circuit board, is not an issue.

Sylvia.

Re: Nobody is Stupider than Sylvia Else


"Nobody is Stupider than Sylvia Else"

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** Not one bit true.

The pics show  NOTHING  that would cause early failure.

Just another boring, fuckwit troll from the maddest bitch in Sydney.





....   Phil






Re: Nobody is Stupider than Sylvia Else


We can't move forward if you keep holding back Phil.


Phil Allison wrote:
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Re: Nobody is Stupider than Sylvia Else

I guess some of us are just more reserved.


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Re: Nobody is Stupider than Sylvia Else
Also top posting makes him a bit narky too.


Dennis wrote:
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Re: Nobody is Stupider than Sylvia Else
bitch ?  is she female then ?  she can email me at  : snipped-for-privacy@adam.com.au


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Re: Nobody is Stupider than Sylvia Else

"mark krawczuk"

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** This web page has an email addy for Sylvia:

http://cryogenic.net/sylvia/index.html

There was for a time a small pic of her on the net when she was the
secretary of the NLP ( defunct nudist party in NSW )  -  it showed a skinny
and very plain gal of about 35 or 40.



....  Phil











Re: Nobody is Stupider than Sylvia Else
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Yes, she is.




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Re: Nobody is Stupider than Sylvia Else

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The ' poorly insulated wires ' have nothing to do with the failure. How
would they be shorting?  How would they short to the  '  underside of the
circuit board '? It would be physically impossible without tampering
 



Re: Nobody is Stupider than Sylvia Else
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Because of the position of the insulating sleeve on the uppermost wire,
it can short to its adjacent wire which has no insulation. In the second
picture, the two wires can be seen to be touching just to the right of
the platic base fo which the tube is attached. As I've indicated, the
wires themselves are either not insulated at all, or the insulation is
poor, because I can make contact along their length using multimeter probes.

When the lamp is assembled the wires lie along the back of the circuit
board. Where the wires have no insulating sleeve, they can make contact
with the circuit tracks and component leads on the back of the board.
The lower three wires can all make contact with something they should
not on the back of the circuit board adjacent to the connecting pins.

Sylvia.



Re: Nobody is Stupider than Sylvia Else
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Are they enamelled copper wire ?
That should be able to cope with any voltages present in that
circuit ?

That spaghetti over the top would mostly be for protection from heat ?

Re: Nobody is Stupider than Sylvia Else
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If it is enameled it can not be any good as Sylvia made contact along
wire with the meter probes

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Re: Nobody is Stupider than Sylvia Else
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I wonder how good the enamelled wire is in the transformer then ?
Might be worth looking at, but also might not be from the same
supplier.

Re: Nobody is Stupider than Sylvia Else
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An earlier post indicated that the wire leading to the tube is a special
alloy to handle the high temperatures associated with being inserted
into the molten glass during the tube manufacture. I haven't checked,
but it seems plausible. If that's the case, the the transformer won't
use the same wire.

Sylvia.

Re: Nobody is Stupider than Sylvia Else
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Unless there is obvious damage to the circuitry such as a violently
blown fuse, or burnt, damaged components,
you could try to wire a regular fluro tube to the PCB and see if it
lights.
This would indicate whether or not the circuitry is still operating,
or was damaged.
If there was a short from that wire to the board, there would be a
good chance of damage to the circuitry.

I have since dismantled several failed CFL (various brands with date
of purchase going back as far as 2002),
All have that same type of woven (heat resistant) sleeving over the
leads,
In many cases the wires in those sleeves are bare
In all cases they had an open circuit filament which was likely the
reason for failure.

One Philips CFL had a different design to yours, an extremely compact
plastic base,  the PCB was mounted upside down (solder side of the PCB
facing the tube) with 2 cutouts in the PCB's for where the tube ends
come through the base.  How they fit all the circuitry
on the remaining board space was remarkable.


Re: Nobody is Stupider than Sylvia Else
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Just
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poorly
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probes.
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I've determined that one of the heater elements is open circuit. This
wouldn't happen as a result of the two wires shorting together, but it
could happen as a result of the uninsulated wire touching something on
the circuit board that it shouldn't.

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Sounds like the more recent one I diassembled for comparison. The
significant difference from the failed one, apart from all the wires
being insulated, is that the insulation was about as long is it could
be, rather than only 2/3 the length of the wire it was insulating.

The board had a rather strange shape - one which I suspect was designed
to allow a denser use of the manufactred boards, albeit at the cost
having curved cuts.

Sylvia.

Re: Nobody is Stupider than Sylvia Else

:>> On 19/10/2010 1:13 AM, kreed wrote:
:>>
:>>
:>>
:>>>> kreed wrote:
:>>>>>> On 17/10/2010 2:49 PM, Metro wrote:
:>>
:>>>>>>>> On 17/10/2010 11:43 AM, Techo wrote:
:>>>>>>>>> These pictures show absolutely nothing, why are you even bothering.
Just
:>>>>>>>>> another hobbyist who thinks that they are an expert but in reality
not
:>>>>>>>>> having a clue.
:>>
:>>>>>>>> OK, since Phil can't, perhaps you'd care to explain why shorting of
poorly
:>>>>>>>> insulated wires either to each other, or to the underside of the
circuit
:>>>>>>>> board, is not an issue.
:>>
:>>>>>>>> Sylvia.
:>>
:>>>>>>> The ' poorly insulated wires ' have nothing to do with the failure. How
:>>>>>>> would they be shorting?  How would they short to the  '  underside of
the
:>>>>>>> circuit board '? It would be physically impossible without tampering
:>>
:>>>>>> Because of the position of the insulating sleeve on the uppermost wire,
:>>>>>> it can short to its adjacent wire which has no insulation. In the second
:>>>>>> picture, the two wires can be seen to be touching just to the right of
:>>>>>> the platic base fo which the tube is attached. As I've indicated, the
:>>>>>> wires themselves are either not insulated at all, or the insulation is
:>>>>>> poor, because I can make contact along their length using multimeter
probes.
:>>
:>>>>>> When the lamp is assembled the wires lie along the back of the circuit
:>>>>>> board. Where the wires have no insulating sleeve, they can make contact
:>>>>>> with the circuit tracks and component leads on the back of the board.
:>>>>>> The lower three wires can all make contact with something they should
:>>>>>> not on the back of the circuit board adjacent to the connecting pins.
:>>
:>>>>>> Sylvia.
:>>
:>>>>> Are they enamelled copper wire ?
:>>
:>>>> If it is enameled it can not be any good as Sylvia made contact along
:>>>> wire with the meter probes
:>>
:>>>>> That should be able to cope with any voltages present in that
:>>>>> circuit ?
:>>
:>>>>> That spaghetti over the top would mostly be for protection from heat ?
:>>
:>>> I wonder how good the enamelled wire is in the transformer then ?
:>>> Might be worth looking at, but also might not be from the same
:>>> supplier.
:>>
:>> An earlier post indicated that the wire leading to the tube is a special
:>> alloy to handle the high temperatures associated with being inserted
:>> into the molten glass during the tube manufacture. I haven't checked,
:>> but it seems plausible. If that's the case, the the transformer won't
:>> use the same wire.
:>>
:>> Sylvia.
:>
:> Unless there is obvious damage to the circuitry such as a violently
:> blown fuse, or burnt, damaged components,
:> you could try to wire a regular fluro tube to the PCB and see if it
:> lights.
:
:I've determined that one of the heater elements is open circuit. This
:wouldn't happen as a result of the two wires shorting together, but it
:could happen as a result of the uninsulated wire touching something on
:the circuit board that it shouldn't.
:
:> This would indicate whether or not the circuitry is still operating,
:> or was damaged.
:> If there was a short from that wire to the board, there would be a
:> good chance of damage to the circuitry.
:>
:> I have since dismantled several failed CFL (various brands with date
:> of purchase going back as far as 2002),
:> All have that same type of woven (heat resistant) sleeving over the
:> leads,
:> In many cases the wires in those sleeves are bare
:> In all cases they had an open circuit filament which was likely the
:> reason for failure.
:>
:> One Philips CFL had a different design to yours, an extremely compact
:> plastic base,  the PCB was mounted upside down (solder side of the PCB
:> facing the tube) with 2 cutouts in the PCB's for where the tube ends
:> come through the base.  How they fit all the circuitry
:> on the remaining board space was remarkable.
:>
:
:Sounds like the more recent one I diassembled for comparison. The
:significant difference from the failed one, apart from all the wires
:being insulated, is that the insulation was about as long is it could
:be, rather than only 2/3 the length of the wire it was insulating.
:
:The board had a rather strange shape - one which I suspect was designed
:to allow a denser use of the manufactred boards, albeit at the cost
:having curved cuts.
:
:Sylvia.


This CFL looks like the Philips Genie 14W model. I recently pulled one apart
when it suddenly stopped working. On mine all 4 wires from the filaments were
insulated with fibreglass spaghetti. No, they are not enamel insulated wires
because they are simply wrapped around the square terminal posts and there was
no evidence of any enamel insulation having been removed either. I tested every
component on the board and couldn't detect which part had failed. Both filaments
were ok and there was absolutely no evidence of any shorting on the pcb. The
inside bottom of the tubes adjacent to the filaments were devoid of phosphor
coating though.

Pavouk has gone to the trouble of posting schematics of a few brands and models
of CFL http://www.pavouk.org/hw/lamp/en_index.html and while the Genie 14W
circuit is similar to the 11W it is not exactly the same, and some component
values are different.

Re: Nobody is Stupider than Sylvia Else
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nah, it's that alloy they use for wires that go through glass.
no coating other than natural oxidisation.

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it's heat proof spaghetti, but probably to avoid shorts between the
wires.  

shorts to the PCB should be impossible if the wires are pulled tight
before wrapping.

--
ɹǝpun uʍop ɯoɹɟ sƃuıʇǝǝɹ⅁



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