HOW2 simplify rPi & increase user-base.

rPi claimed to be .
We know how difficult it is for techies to discipline themselves and not,
/get-carried-away.
That's why you write the spec before you starting to code;
you make a flight-plan before you take off.
Re. educational projects, rPi can learn from OneLaptopPerChild.
OLPC also had yuppies in California trying to direct OLPC advocates in
Nepal [with no main supply] via "your latest http".
It's like sitting in your office in NY and internetting to the bloke who
is snorkelling under the water, that he should "Pour yourself a cup
of coffee". He can't do that in his constrained environment.
USB is rather complex; but the details are well hidden, and standardised
to the extent that it's in the BIOS.
Ethernet is quite complex, but it's not standardised and hidden in the
BIOS. Something about different chips? IMO it's a mess.
A fundamental requirement of a rPi type project is the ability to install
new/different stuff.
It should NOT need ethernet to fetch/install packages.
With the existing rPi hardware, a 3G USBdongle could get on line if the
utility `eject` was supplied, by default.
~# ls -l `which eject` ==
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 20600 2007-02-16 21:54 /usr/bin/eject*
Reply to
Unknown
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I think you do have a point here. Maybe some distributions could think about adding more ways to connect to the internet (like WWAN dongles) in the ootb setup.
But you have a terrible way to express that. Maybe a bug-report or feature-request to these projects would yield better results.
I've also had problems installing some distribution with (I think) NOOBS in my constrained Network in my building. DHCP only advertises IPs here, not gateways. Things would have been easier if I had been prompted for network settings at rPI installation time. (after DHCP failed to connect to the internet)
And constrained by the fact, that there is exactly one master node (host). Why didn't you just connect your rPI to the internet using USB? ... right, because it doesn't allow that.
The easy solution to your problem would have been to download the .deb package containing "eject" using a browser on your Computer to an USB thumb drive. Then plug that into your rPI and install it. People suggested that.
There are plenty of standards regarding ethernet, don't worry about that. It's just too flexible to be all hidden away.
Different chips are no problem as far as your kernel brings the driver. (which it always did for me)
Installing eject using ethernet (and internet) is possible in a variety of ways.
* Use an off-the-shelve modem/router that connects to the internet. Plug in your rPI on the LAN side and NAT and DHCP does the rest. You are connected.
* Configure your computer as router (Internet connection sharing, ip_forward...) then either: * set up the computer as DHCP server * configure your rPI IP settings manually
The internet is too big to come with the rPI on an sd-card. So distributions come with a set of software that seems practical, and everything still fits on a small sd-card.
To install more software APT (for debian) or most other package managers are able to retrieve updates/augmentations using different channels. HTTP over internet is one of them. Another one is a copy of the package mirror on an USB-Harddisk. Just plug that into your rPI, configure your package manager and off you go installing stuff.
... I still think you are just trolling though. (Amount of ignorance and insight in IT at the same time seems unlikely)
If you are not, then just try to adjust your language and fix your name in the header.
have a nivce day
Reply to
Stefan Enzinger
[]
My Raspberry Pi cards work nicely over Wi-Fi using an EDIMAX EW-7811UN.
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Reply to
David Taylor
You are free to write whatever operating syustem you like for the pi.
I suggest you do so.
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Reply to
The Natural Philosopher
Yes, we get it, you don't like ethernet. As you've already been told, it isn't even as if you need it to install packages. The model A would be pretty much useless if that was not the case after all. If you still find the optional presence of ethernet objectionable go away and build your own alternative.
No, I realise you are not going to because you are too thick or too lazy. The whole reason for this campaign is that you can't be arsed to spend ten minutes reading up as to how you might configure your network. In other words the fault is with you, not the device. rPi is supposed to be educational, that means you need to be prepared to learn. It isn't everyone else that is missing the point here.
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Andrew Smallshaw
I only need one non-football-tribalist [don't critcise my team] to understand my out of the box idea. Others can do the RP.
As you've observed, I don't need such elementary suggestions. It failed cos' the parameters: URL, version, model, dependencies ...etc. are hidden in the magic ExpertSystem aka `aptitude` and sons.
It's like the national-railway-system; which is good for routing many passengers to many destinations, but not for connecting ONE rPi to ONE PC.
You've lost the plot. I'm expecting to not NEED the railway-system, if I've get `eject` installed.
I do neither PeeCee nor PR.
BTW I did mention that it's only a little binary, and if they can't post it to me, the ID of the ONE that's been tested to work would be much appreciated. And even MORE valuable to the rPi community would be the possible discovery that my still unproved theory is wrong.
I appreciate the observation that the model A would fail my theory; and it's interesting how the mechanism-of-evolution [you proceed from your previous position instead of optimising] could explain the use of the railway-system mentality.
Reply to
Unknown
formatting link

Reply to
Guesser
I'm not a native english speaker, you lost me there. Especially with "RP"
I don't know your operating system. For now I'll go with raspbian. You find the packages using a browser in
formatting link

in case of eject:
formatting link

... just get the files ending with .deb
The next task is to get these files to your rPI. option 1: use a thumbdrive. option 2: mount your rPI sd-card on your slack machine and put the file on it where you'll find it later.
aaand now install that file dpkg -i some_package.deb ... use sudo in case you are not root.
If this fails due to dependencies you will have to repeat these steps.
I don't own a rPi nor use raspbian. Just ubuntu which derives from debian. I guess that should work though. I can't tell if this solves your original problem.
btw, this is just an elaboration of what Richard Kettlewell wrote on 2013-10-25
have fun!
st-trying to avoid to do things i have to do-fan
Reply to
Stefan Enzinger
:-D
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Reply to
Tim Hill
My mistake: I meant PR. Public relations: since the writer questioned my style.
OK, I'll compare these URLs with what I tried.
Yes, ad nauseum.
I know all those elementary steps, but when you fall in the same hole twice, it's time to step back and see the bigger question: "if millions of rPi have been sold, aren't there other people who don't want to use the-national-railway-system to connect ONE rPi to ONE PC, or perhaps I've over looked some technical question?"
I'm tired of sweating-blood to achieve trivial goals. Why hasn't anybody else done this, or explained that it's not viable. Does FB/twitter make them all follow like lemmings?
Reply to
Unknown
That writer would have been me. And yes, to a certain degree "public relations" are kind of necessary. You need to "sell" yourself and your problem good here, otherwise people won't be happy to help you in their spare time.
or just check the dependencies on your rPI before apt-cache depends sauerbraten
I just failed to write a bash line to automate this.
Well, it's hard to guess what you know and what you don't know.
It's hard to guess what you need/want either. I thought this whole thing was about to connect your 3G dongle to the rPI. Not to connect it to your computer. Or is it about making some point? But I guess I have some more spare fish, enjoy:
If you connect a computer to another computer, then you create a network of computers. A railway system is a network of stations or cities or whatever. As these cities could be in different countries with different railway standards (coal vs. electricity, difference in voltage, different tracks...) one has to do some adjustments or configuration to make that work.
So just plug this cable in and configure your computers to static IPs
PC: ifconfig eth0 192.168.0.1 rPI ifconfig eth0 192.168.0.2
and you are done. If you persist on a connection between 2 computers.
Throwing in some piece that does DHCP (e.g. most routers) would make it real plugNplay.
One could also think of the thumbdrive as a medium. it is even called that way. So using it to transfer a file from one PC to another might be called a connection too. I think google transferred a bunch of data using a truck loaded with harddrives. It was the connection with the highest throughput.
The kind of data to be transferred should be defined too. A serial connection (UART, RS-232) is an easy and point 2 point connection. But it also needs some configuration.
Come on! Sweating blood?. Really?!
Haha, I just don't know what to respond here. I guess every person in this group and most people using a router with their computer has created a network before. It's as simple as plugging a network cable in your computer and the router. voila.
boring
Reply to
Stefan Enzinger
ahem apt-cache depends eject
Reply to
Stefan Enzinger
On Sun, 3 Nov 2013 05:24:02 +0000 (UTC), Unknown declaimed the following:
And it's the same hole you'd have run into connecting just two PCs together, years ago.
TwistedPair Ethernet is optimized to be used with a hub/switch/router. It was not planned for direct 1-to-1 host-host connection.
Would you have preferred the original coax cables, requiring special taps to connect to the cable, and proper terminations at the end of the cable?
When I replaced my Win95 machine with a Win98 machine, I had to use a cross-over cable to transfer the data as I didn't have any longterm need for even a hub. I only ran one computer at home, and it was on 32kbps dial-up. I didn't put in a router until the summer I was driving my printers over a parallel port ethernet converter. {And later lied to my ISP when I converted to DSL -- as they want $10 extra per month for "multiple computer" support, using the same router I already owned}
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Reply to
Dennis Lee Bieber
OK, that's good to check dependencies BEFORE you buy. It looks ok.
1. To be able to go where there's no computers, with rPi+miniPSU+mouse+ RCA-cable+dongle, and just plug it into the TVs which we have here -- still analogue. I can boot and operate rPi without a keybrd Currently I use one everyday to listen to TextToSpeech, lying down in a location which has no mains power.
2. rPi claims to be an educational project [not a yuppie-toy]. Like OLPC we think of undeveloped societies who may have TVs for display but definitly NOT national-railway-networks to plug into.
Wow !!!!! All the LEDs come on at both ends. But now one VT can't see KeyBrd . While on-line with the PC, to fetch stuff, I did rPi: apt-get install eject and got "tempory failure resolving mirrordirectory...."
What is the SIMPLEST test to communicate between rPi PC ?
You've got a problem in seeing: A leads to B leads to C ...... The hides the parameters: URL, version ..etc. and negotiates directly. You can't do it manually, and make aptitude unemployed, unless you're prepared for difficulties. Eg. your 'ifconfig' seems to have messed the key, so I've out of X to use . Now I'll try the URL that someone here gave for .deb
Reply to
Unknown
OK, using the URL that someone here [my newsreader is crap] gave me; [THANKS] `eject` was installed and switches the dongle, as seen by the LED-sequence.
Now I'll 'follow' the same URL to get pppd. But I'm wandering what some of the MILLIONS of rPi users are using to connect via a simple 3Gdongle.
I must assume that a simpler way is already packaged in the default OS?
Reply to
Unknown
Yes because you've connected it to your other PC, not to the inter-global-super-trainset...
Did you expect network packets to magically get from the Pi to the internet without any routing in between?
Reply to
Guesser
Well, I guess there are some possibilities. Either eject and pppd are installed on their OS ootb.
Or they do a simple apt-get install eject pppd
... after hooking it up to a properly configured network.
How does your PC connect to the internet?
Reply to
Stefan Enzinger
good
So configuring the network disabled your key on one single VT? I seriously doubt that.
As Guesser stated: no routing -> no internet.
A network connection between rPi and PC enables conection between these two parties. You would neet to configure your slack machine as a router.
That would be ping
ping 192.168.0.1 or ping 192.168.0.2
Please elaborate that.
apt-cache policy eject
Here you have URL, version, ..etc
Well, you can always mess things up if you don't know what you are doing. But even using dpkg -i does sanity checks.
I have troubles parsing this sentence, please rephrase.
Reply to
Stefan Enzinger
I was hoping to avoid opening another canOworms:. Like I didn't need to, to do: file -> serPort -> modem -> ISP -> iNet.
Besides, since the rPi needs to be the PC, I'd want to FIRST confirm that rPi & PC can communicate.
It's when the various stages are hidden [eg. in apt:ES] and users just say `install POTATOE BANANA SHOE`, that they can't debug the inevitable problems.
BTW thanks for NOT telling how I could confirm: "you've connected it to your other PC".
Reply to
Unknown
hm. I did post that already. ping is usually a nice tool to test this:
I just assume 192.168.0.1 and 192.168.0.2 as IPs of rPi and your Pc:
ping 192.168.0.1 or ping 192.168.0.2
if it keeps telling you some values then everything is fine. quit with +c
if it stops after 2 or 4 lines then there is no connection.
greez
Reply to
Stefan Enzinger

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