Sing it LOUD! The best code quality I've ever known in a project was one where we did both of these things - the code and tests were usually written at the same time, their first meeting was always fun. Doing it that way made the tester and coder competitive which worked wonders.
-- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
That's a reaction I've never had: the last bug I reported, yesterday, got thanks because it explained an anomaly that the developers had seen but not been able to figure out yet.
If you've had that reaction you were unlucky in finding an example of buttheadus developerii. Don't let it put you off bug reporting.
-- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org
Gareth wants to still do things the way they did forty years ago, including attaching blinkenlights to a Pi, presumably so he can modify registers using buttons on the front panel. He can't accept that the world and its technology has moved on, because his brain is stuck in that mode, I admit that I had problems getting my head around Java when I had previously mainly programmed in C (and didn't like C++ at all - Smalltalk was good though, and ADA's not bad for an old chick). But then I had difficulty with Fortran when I had previously only used Basic (where are the line numbers???). You adapt and learn to use appropriate tools, you don't unplug an angle grinder and try to use it as a file.
There's no call for gratuitous rudeness, OM.
I've never experienced any difficulty moving from one language to another and professionally have dealt with most of the common ones in my time; this comes from having a very good grounding at the low level because then you can picture how the language with which you deal maps into machine code. Perhaps I could help you with your expressed difficulty?
FORTRAN, BASIC, RTL/2, CORAL, PL/M-86, PASCAL, C (many times over), C++, FORTH, many assemblers and even at one client, machine code typed directly into a PROM programmer despite my advice to them that their estimated development time of 3 months would take about a week in C.
Actually, at one client, I was interviewed to take over something from a recent computer scientist with all the pomposity that entails, who had spent 6 weeks on aC based project without completing it, and I said why C and not Visual Basic, and as part of the interview showed how easy it was to do serial port stuff in VB, so ended up there in a contract for the next two years.
There's a lot of snobbishness and elitism in the VB versus C workplace, but then, if a project involved screen, keyboard, printer, and Internet, I'd unhesitatingly advice the client to go for VB for financial reasons.
Provided they're willing to tie themselves to Windows...
-- /~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs) \ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way. X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855. / \ Fight low-contrast text in web pages! http://contrastrebellion.com
In that scenario (screen, keyboard, printer, and Internet) I have found it far more effeicient in terms of coding time to use html and javascript and PHP.
-- Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the people. But Marxism is the crack cocaine.
Here might be a goed start:
-- Roel Wagenaar Thuis
Over the past 10 years or so, half client offices have been Windows, and half Linux.
Use whatever is to hand, with no preference. Worst OS ISTR was ISIS on the Intel Blue Boxes. OS32 on Perkin Elmer (nee Interdata) I still have a reference card around somehwere
Certainly greater scope for lifetime support if HTML based.
Really? That is worth exploring. How does SQL map into machine code? How does Prolog? Erlang? Haskell?
All pretty old stuff. All pretty much imperative based too.
-- Andy Leighton => andyl@azaal.plus.com "We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!" - Douglas Adams
Pretty badly.:-)
Even worse....?
Probably why they have never been used for anything important that I can think of... .
-- New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in someone else's pocket.
Really?
SQL is used extensively. Erlang was/is widely used in telephone exchanges and mobile networks. I will admit that Prolog and Haskell haven't got wide usage. But TBH many of the languages Gareth listed do not have wide usage these days.
-- Andy Leighton => andyl@azaal.plus.com "We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!" - Douglas Adams
In general just because someone doesn?t understand it doesn?t mean it isn?t useful. I don?t understand VHDL but that doesn?t stop my colleagues doing interesting things with FPGAs.
The Haskell wiki has a big list of applications - it turns up in finance, compilers, biotech, telecommunications, security, IC modelling, virtualization, games, ...
-- https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
Cheers it looks like Haskell has come a long way in adoption in industey since I last looked at it.
Prolog - I knew about Watson but that is a weird case as Watson is really a multi-language system. Prolog does the heavy lifting on pattern matching but a lot of Watson is in other langs.
-- Andy Leighton => andyl@azaal.plus.com "We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!" - Douglas Adams
That?s what I?d expect: Prolog used where it can play to its strengths, other languages used where they fit best. Complex systems are often implemented in multiple languages. Even in the not particularly complicated product that pays much of my salary we have four languages, plus a couple more dealing with OS integration.
-- https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
My last sentence wasn't reffering to SQL
Erlang was/is widely used in telephone exchanges
*shrug* my point exactly. For all their theoretical elegance, the language which most easily (if not 1:1) maps onto the underlying machine architecture, rather than mapping to and abstract computational concept that then has to be shoe-horned into assembler, is teh one that is the most popular. I have cionsiderable exposure to (My)SQL (alhtough not Oracle or any other heavyweight commercial implementation) and even here my experience proves my point. Anything more than the simplest of queries leads to performance issues which are solved by ignoring the elegant flexible features of the language and hard coding exactly what you are trying to do with the data ine.g. C.And it better had be C, and not PHP, because the memory management of that is such that it collapses in a heap (sic!) when handling large SQL data objects.
C sits nicely between the overwight syntax and non portability of assembler, and teh ineffeicient and unintelligent langeuages of computer scientists, who instead of respecting the hardware upon which their code nust run, as COBOL, FORTRAN and B/BCPL/C did, instead ignore it in their search for symmetry elegance and presumably geek status, whils what they have implemented rumbles along overblown and overweight and bug filled.
-- To ban Christmas, simply give turkeys the vote.
Any website worth its salt typically runs at least 3 - PHP or other server side scripting, HTML and javascript and mixtures of the above. I run C as an additional langauge for speed and efficiency.
But I would remind you of the possibly apocryphal tale of a yound Gary Kildall, faced with a huge wad of assembler code as an intern, who took the decision to rewrite it in FORTRAN. It ran faster...
-- "I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently. This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and all women"
On a sunny day (Tue, 1 May 2018 09:40:34 +0100) it happened The Natural Philosopher wrote in :
Nicely stated As to data bases, I once started making records for my CD/DVD/BDR disk collection, and got fed up really fast (entering records). Now use one big text file and search with editor or use: cat dvd-list.txt | grep movie_name cat dvd-list.txt | grep amovie shows all the movies I have, and their length in bytes, any other important info, gives you disk number... and all that is on it.
As disk capacity gets bigger and bigger, anytime I buy a new PC I make a partition with the old OS (tar / untar). Can boot that, search it (is always mounted), or run software in it with chroot So all data is there too. The effect is that if I type locate keyword or locate keyword | grep something then find what I need in seconds. All project I did are there. Or find some code.
It sort of overrides any database that may or may not be there. For example this newsreader I wrote and use, NewsFleX, has its own database structure, based on Unix directory names. Amazing, I can look up a keyword in Usenet posts I saved or postings I did, going back to 1998 when I wrote it. It is getting of historical value, saved a lot of interesting postings from people. Same disk, all back-upped too of course on several media, harddisk, flash, bluray. Of course data-beasts (hehe) are big business, companies like .. sell that to other companies... for lots of $$$$$. Much much harder to use than locate and grep, and there is awk too, it is really worth it knowing those little utilities. And faster, and no overhead. To stay in the same perspective, been using 'pine' as email reader since 1998 too. A simple 'grep' for a word in the ~/mail directory for any keyword gives me all references in emails to that word back to 1998. I never had a - or needed a change in email client in all those years, 'pine' is a university project by University of Washington, now called 'alpine' it seems, but does the same thing as pine. Sometimes I wonder how people get along without it, And fetchmail.
Maybe the best way to sell bloat is not educate people of the right way to do things, of the underlying system architecture. There is a poster in sci.electronics.design who runs a very high tech company, he wrote his own (thousands of electronics parts) database in BASIC, just a few lines...
Now you may think that for millions of records you really DO need .. well they tried to overhaul the tax system here, that project lasted years, did cost millions and millions, and failed. I had to be stopped. To me, from the complexity of the few lines really (compared to the many thousands of lines code I wrote) tax laws, it seems the data-beast they used died. Just simple money making strategy imposed by greedy companies on the technical clueless (often by clueless politicians). Top down does NOT work, an architect that does not know about bricks and concrete etc cannot build a skyscraper (not one that I want to be near anyways).
There is more, but the advice here is IF you use a raspberry, and want to find something, use locate something search in a txt file use grep keyword and to see if anything has a manual about it, use: apropos subject If you have some stuff make a text file and search it with grep.
I use those utilities many times each day.
Not my experience. Most projects choose languages because their ecosystem of libraries and frameworks do a good job at supporting their requirements. Also because it is quicker to develop certain applications in certain languages.
Maybe your experience with sql isn't as deep as you think. I have had years of database experience both in the old days with dBase III style databses (apps written in Clipper), and with various SQL and SQL-like (I started with Ingres on 4.2bsd before it used SQL and before SQL was standardised) and have used Postgres, mysql, MS-SQL, Sybase Anywhere, Sybase ASE, and Oracle.
Yes it is easy to write non-performant queries and updates in sql, and sql dialects. Some of that can be due to poor db design, but a lot is due to poor knowledge. It is also IME possible to increase the performance of some of those non-performant queries a thousand-fold.
Now you are trolling. I have written stuff in a number of assembly languages, and in C and wouldn't say anything close to that.
-- Andy Leighton => andyl@azaal.plus.com "We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!" - Douglas Adams
That poor overworked cat :)
-- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. |
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