Two phases or not?

Oh I completely agree that the terminology is split phase and or center tapped.. Just after reading all of this I am trying to rationalize why there is so much debate.. I mean they are different phases 180deg apart. That is measurable. I just cant understand why some refuse the fact that they are 2 different phases, i.e. "split-phase" as the name implies. This fits the definiton of a different phase of power. Im not trying to change any terminology in the process here.

Mike

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are 2

MIke et al

The problem seems to be that after all this dialogue, that so many of the responders simply don't stick to the basic premise that different phases by definition have timing differences. Simply reversing the way of using a phase does not make it a different phase. The timing stays the same.

If one uses an oscillioscope to view the phase it can be readily reversed to appear as another when it is not. We connect windings in the power transformer that feeds our residence to get the desired result, 120 or 240 and connect the common point to accomplish another desired result. Safety. Also the ungrounded winding would be floating about a possible potential of several thousand volts and be a real hazard should there be a problem in any of the many devises connected to the secondary. Including the two seconday windings. And yes there are two identical secondary windings. If there were not our electric bills would at least double. Lots of folks would die and lots of devises would be hazardous to all. Thus the emphasis on proper grounding in the interests of public welfare. But this is another subject.

Bob AZ

"Bob AZ"

The problem seems to be that after all this dialogue, that so many of the responders simply don't stick to the basic premise that different phases by definition have timing differences.

** More total nonsenese.

Sine waves of the exact same frequency and amplitude can ONLY differ only in phase.

A 180 degree phase difference is as good as any other.

.... Phil

Phil-

I have a flashlight powered by a two-phase system - two D cells. It certainly fits your criteria. Its power system can also be considered AC, since DC is just AC with frequency equal to zero.

Facts are no deterrent to a persistent troll!

Fred

"Fred McKenzie"

** Nuh - that is DC, you pathetic troll. ** Nuh - not one of them.

** Just like white is the same as black with no lights on. ** Just like reality is no deterrent to a lunatic.

Did someone leave the door open at the asylum today ??

..... Phil

I'd make a comment here but it is against my new year's resolution.

--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

You still lose:

You don't seem to know the difference between circuits and phase angles..

Typical residential hack electrician..

I hope you don't ever decide to move in to electronics, you'd be in a world of shit.

"Jamie" = radio ham KA1LPA

** Shame that so many radio hams on usenet prove themselves to be the biggest trolls, trouble makers and blow hard bullshit artists ever.

Especially YOU.

Damn shame about that.

.... Phil

Making assumptions like that about some one you know absolutely nothing about, isn't very good character on your part. It just goes to show how much of an ignoramus one could be, you for example.

Now, I understand your dilemma. I am forced to communication with people of your type, every day. That does not mean I have to like it how ever, it's a requirement I must adhere to.

Could it be these so called "Trouble Makers" as you call them are just making you feel like you have too much competition ? I am sorry that "we Amateur Operators don't kneel down and kiss your feet".

Jamie

P.S. It's not nice trying to make yourself look better by devaluing others.

hint.

Ok I get what your saying.. But do you understand what a phanse difference is?? It is timing like you said..

Here is an explanation using audio waves. Maybe you can get what I am saying.

Still trying to find people to join you?

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

By your definiton, a 'Push-Pull Output Transformer' is two phase.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

On 1/26/2011 7:45 PM Michael A. Terrell spake thus:

It IS two phase; that's the whole point. (At least on the primary side.)

I'd be interested in your explanation of how it isn't ...

(I think my example was a little more clear: look at a center-tapped transformer used as the input to a push-pull stage and tell me there aren't two phases there.)

--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

   To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
   who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
   that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

Then a Williamson 'Ultra linear' output transformer is four phase?

See page 4 for a sample schmatic.

Then look at a Williamson 'Ultra linear' output transformer and tell me there are four phases.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

My New Year's resolution was an easy one this year. Make no New Year's resolutions ever again.

I made that one, over 30 years ago. :)

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

I didn't check the link.. the thread topic was electrical power.

I assume some of the fuckwits in this thread would like to argue that the outputs of a simple stereo amp (L+/gnd and R+/gnd), with a center channel (L+ and R+) would be 3-phase.

Still.. it's not electrical power.

A Simple, Practical and Sensible approach to the difference between electrical circuits, and electronic circuits is:

Electrical power circuits perform work (mechanical energy, heat etc).

Electronic circuits are for relaying information (data, sensing, control of electrical devices, communications).

I'm done here.. another wasted minute of my remaining time isn't worthwhile to me. Have yer fun.

As I suggested in my first reply in this thread, this issue is simply food (a drug?) for the dimwitted that have nothing better to do.

I can only imagine the good efforts that could have been attributed to real issues worldwide.. with the time/effort that's been wasted by trillions of minutes of worthless usenet replies and pissing contests.

-- Cheers, WB .............

ence

Mike

Nice weblink. Someone went to a lot of work to do the programming and all for it. When I had phase and rotation and the resultants presented to me a long time ago it was on a blackboard by a math person. Took a while to sink in with all of us in the class.

I do undrstand what a phase difference is. I have been tripped up lots of times by it. One time that comes to my mind was when I was working in a 3 phase box and simply couldn't get a there phase subpanel to give me three hot legs as I expected. I found out that a major airport used nothing but 3 phase panels for distribution but only distributed two phases of the three. They used the vacant pole in the panel for growth. There was even a mix of 110 and 220 volts. Thus the panel had one phase on the first pole and the other poles were the same phase. Cost the US government a few thousand which was recovered from the municipality with penalties.

And to "add" to this discussion I am filtering the responses by my personal criteria. There are 3 ways of doing anything. The adult way, the child way and the infant way. Take a look at some of the responses. Civil and not so civil. Our leaders thrust on "civility" is long over due.

Bob AZ

On 1/27/2011 12:29 AM Michael A. Terrell spake thus:

difference

I looked at your Stancor PDF. Why in the world would you think I'd think that transformer is 4-phase???

[btw, the schematics are on pages 2 and 6]

OK, I'll play along here. On page 6 they show an output xfmr with 2 taps. But of course that has nothing whatever to do with phase, as you damn well know, because the output is referenced to one of the OUTER LEGS OF THE TRANSFORMER (see that "COM" on the bottom?), so the output is simply one phase. I was talking about a center-tapped transformer where the two sides are referenced to THE CENTER TAP.

So again, how does a center-tapped transformer secondary WHERE THE OUTPUT IS REFERENCED TO THE CENTER TAP (i.e., the center tap is grounded) NOT generate two separate phases? Please 'splain that.

--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

   To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
   who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
   that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.