Odd battery voltages

I opened a new package of Kirkland brand AA batteries but when I put them in the device I got the flashing LED mesage of low voltage. Out of 6 batteries 3 were bad. Measuring the voltages one battery measured .82 volts, another 1.1 volts, and a third one measured -87 mV. Negative? Really? Yeah, I thought that too. But I made sure the meter leads were correctly placed. So I guess something weird is happenening to these batteries while they are sitting in the package. Maybe they are getting ready to leak. I'm thinking that package needs to go back. to Costco. Eric

Tell you a story:

Energizer Batteries, 1960s-vintage Civil Defense Geiger Counter - my wife collected Fiesta Ware at the time. Paid $30 for the counter and its accouterments at a surplus sale.

Batteries blew up. Sent the unit to Energizer.

6-weeks later, I received a check from Energizer for $349.67, or some such close to that number, together with a polite note not to keep batteries in a device while in storage.

Nothing but US-made batteries, from here on out. With Energizer being the preferred vendor.

You may have saved $2 for that pack over a domestic name-brand. But it is costing you the trouble of returning them - which in any case will be far more than $2, probably enough for half-a-dozen 'real' batteries.

Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

Yes! By all means return them to Costco with an attached note as to their failure(s).

I've been buying, storing (in a fridge), and using Costco's D, AA, AAA, and 9V batteries for at least 2 decades without issue. Any retailer can get hurt by bad products from a supplier. But, without feedback . . . . .

Jonesy

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  Marvin L Jones     | W3DHJ      | W3DHJ  | https://W3DHJ.net/ 
   Pueblo, Colorado  |  @         | Jonesy |     __ linux FreeBSD 
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I've never bothered experimenting, but Duracell recommends storing alkalines at room temp - storing in the refrigerator is not recommended. Supposedly, rechargeables (other than eneloop types) will hold their charge longer if cold, but who knows?

I've had some with small negative v too. No idea what the chemistry is that's making that happen.

As for brands, most are much the same. ZnC and alkaline certainly aren't, but otherwise they're not a lot different. All are liable to leak when flat. ZnC sometimes leak when half flat.

NT

A decade ago, I was happily buying the Kirkland-brand AAs from Costco, getting good in-service lifetime and no problems to speak of.

A few years ago, something changed. I began to find their AAs starting to leak, while still fully charged (never put into service), while still in the original storage box or shrink-wrap package, well before their labeled "use by" date.

I don't know whether they changed suppliers, or whether their old supplier's quality fell through the floor... but the result was the same. I've stopped buying the Kirkland batteries.

My para-chemist opinion is that alkaline batteries are based on chemical processes, and chemical processes are slowed by lower temperatures. (Just try starting your car in -50 degrees Fahrenheit. I have.)

My other opinion is that (insert any company name here) has a mission statement that - (paraphrasing) states "We are here to move product". (That's why peanut butter and jelly jars contain ridges. You buy

8 oz. and throw out .25 oz. Big deal? Well, after millions and millions of .25 ounces are thrown out, you can see They Moved A Lot Of Product.

That's my belief and I'm sticking to it. :-) Jonesy

--
  Marvin L Jones     | W3DHJ      | W3DHJ  | https://W3DHJ.net/ 
   Pueblo, Colorado  |  @         | Jonesy |     __ linux FreeBSD 
    38.238N 104.547W |   jonz.net | DM78rf | 73  SK

Seems to be the same with all brands now, must be they have found a cheaper way to produce.

Perhaps something like this mess? Actually, I've have fairly good luck with Kirkland batteries. I buy quite a few in various sizes. Most work, but occasionally, I get a loser like the one's in the photo.

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

It was more than a few years. In 1996, mercury was removed from alkaline and other batteries. Mercury is what prevented leaks: When introduced in the late 1960s, the zinc electrode of alkaline batteries (in common with the then ubiquitous carbon-zinc cells) had a surface film of mercury amalgam. Its purpose was to control electrolytic action at impurity sites, which would reduce shelf life and promote leakage. With reductions in mercury content being mandated by various legislatures, it became necessary to greatly improve the purity and consistency of the zinc.

Since they can't use mercury, they have to use highly refined zinc which I assume is expensive. In theory, using only the purity of the zinc, they could adjust how long the battery will last before leaking by simply controlling the impurity level in the zinc.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

A few decades ago in another country I had a scraper/spatula with an edge shaped to match the ridges in cans and jars. Haven't seen such a thing since.

Perce

Yeah, I've had good luck with Kirkland batteries too. Certainly no worse than any other brand. This package was then first to contain bad cells. I'm still curious about the reversal of the polarity in the one cell. Eric

It's called a "jar scraper tool" or something similar:

However, that doesn't mean that manufacturers can't retaliate and make life difficult. Try scraping all the peanut butter out of these jars:

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

As to how you would get 'negative' voltage. Consider what happens when you connect your VOM with the leads reversed.

The chemistry in that battery had "flipped over" such that it was producing current opposite to the marked poles. Not uncommon with cheap batteries that often blow up even before being unwrapped.

Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

This is pretty close to what I had:

Perce

I know the chemistry somehow reversed. What I would like is an explanation of what happened in detail. How the chemistry reverses. Eric

Completely discharged batteries can be reverse charged. So, imagine, a dead cell in series with others, there's your reverse charging potential.

--
"I am a river to my people." 
Jeff-1.0 
WA6FWi 
http:foxsmercantile.com

OK:

Parts and pieces, simplified:

Zinc anode current collector. Manganese Oxide Cathode. Potassium Hydroxide Electrolyte/Anode

Chemical Reactions = power + heat. External Heat will increase the completeness of the reaction. When that heat is removed, there is an opportunity for the reaction to reverse. When the expansion seal fails (the chemical reactions increase internal volume, and so will cause cheap batteries to leak), oxygen added to the system will react with the other chemicals and start that reverse reaction.

Notice that the reverse reaction is a very tiny fraction of the primary reaction, and needs a considerable and elaborate sequence-of-events to take place:

a) Over Reaction b) Leak c) Oxygen

Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

Yep. You see this a lot when people mix batteries in a device. Almost invariably, one will be die before the others and get reverse charged.