new models of personal air purifiers

OK, I'm not sure I understand this. Isn't one molecule of ozone created for each ion? Isn't this the fundamental definition of ozone???

Maybe I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time:>:

Nope.

Ozone is what you get if you apply enough energy to a set of three oxygen molecules (O2) to temporarily tear 'em apart, and end up with them being put back together into a pair of ozone molecules (O3). Although this is often done using a strong electrical field, the resulting ozone molecules can each have a neutral electrical charge - they are not ionized. It's also possible to convert O2 to O3 by means of high-intensity ultraviolet light - commercial ozone generators often use this approach.

Ions are what you get if you add electrons to, or strip electrons away from, neutrally-charged atoms or molecules. This can be done with an electrical field.

The negative-ion generators I've used have a relatively modest negative electrical charge maintained on their discharge brush. The resulting field strength seems to be strong enough to discharge electrons onto (and thus ionize) passing molecules, but not strong enough to rip apart and ozonize a significant amount of oxygen.

The ozonator in my hot tub works that way, it has a small quartz fluorescent tube. It's nice because it reduces the bromine consumption though the replacement tubes are pricey.

There is a chance of the latter succeeding.

A few years back, one of my wife's frinds returned to the area for a visit. She is a devout Christian, but had been selling magnets as cure-alls. I asked my wife (also a firm Christian) if what she was selling weren't rather un-Christian. She just shuttered.

...then there is the magnet for the fuel line, to align all those gasoline molecules as they go into the ingectors.

Right; the thing is that with TMS, they first established that it definitely has an effect on the brain; it can make people twitch, for example, when a motor area is stimulated; so the only question now is how to get a

A good point. As a firm Christian myself, I think we should be more intolerant of quacks. Fraud is sin. Irresponsibility bordering on fraud is also culpable.

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Yes I remember discovering that when I took archery in school, a feather zipping by at a good speed can do some damage.

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Er, righ......................

I don't think the guy at the local watering hole that's buying illegal black market viagra is going to complain too much about deceptive advertising! ;-)

Well, I might get in trouble for selling phony illegal black market drugs. ;-)

Oh, then just come up with a "supplement", like the guy I knew a few years ago that had some snake-oil called "Testo-Glan." ;-p

Yeah, well, it's not like that'd be a new experience for me. ;-)

I think it's not even necessarily true that it "must" produce ozone - Dave Platt, in another part of the thread, seems to have had a good experience with a negative ion generator that didn't produce any ozone, and he seems to indicate that his eyes are a very sensitive ozone detector.

And, do you remember those atomic phonograph record brushes? It had some polonium or something in it, which spits out alpha particles, which are basically fast helium++ ions. They didn't make any ozone, but they put out enough ions to discharge the static that made the dust stick to the vinyl. Radioactive stuff is pretty much illegal these days, otherwise you could make an ionizer with just a few volts of DC; but I can see how it'd be possible to create some ions without necessarily dissociating O2 into atomic oxygen.

And since ozone is not very stable in its own right, it probably wouldn't be hard to come up with some catalytic ozone destroyer; but in small quantities, ozone really does clean and deodorize the air - it's a very aggressive oxidizer, you know. It bleaches the dust mites to death. ;-)

Cheers! Rich

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No, but I did work for an environmental consultant who installed a bunch of "germicical UV" lights near the ceiling of a commercial bakery that stunk of rot and mildew all of the time, and about a week later it didn't stink any more. And that was _intentional_ ozone generation, specifically to clean and deodorize the air.

But, in cleaning the air, the ozone gets used up. Like when you're burning a candle in a jar, the oxygen runs out because the wax and oxygen make CO2, H2O, and soot. So after killing a certain weight of bacteria and spores and dust mites, the O3 has taken place in chemical reactions (oxidation) and isn't ozone any more anyway.

Cheers! Rich

whatever,

But since there are millions of spammers out there selling herbal viagra, there must be some suckers buying it. Check this out.

illegal

Actually, this is the one I had in mind. They confiscated a whole bunch of exotic cars from one of the swindlers.

"Under a settlement of a civil complaint announced last month by the Arizona attorney general?s office, the state is seizing 13 luxury homes and property valued at more than $20 million, a fleet of expensive automobiles and tens of millions of dollars of cash from C.P. Direct and its main officers, Michael Consoli, Geraldine Consoli and Vincent Passafiume, all of Scottsdale."

Then there's the guy selling that book, "Natural Cures They Don't Want You To Know About" (Kevin Trudeau). Apparently he doesn't want you to know either since there are none in his book or on his pay website that the book touts!

"... In his infomercial, Mr. Trudeau claims he has natural cures for a myriad of serious illnesses, which he would love to reveal to you then and there, but the Evil Government won't let him say anything on TV. You must buy his book!

In the book, Mr. Trudeau gives a few generic tips on healthful living, urges everyone to join the Scientology cult, and claims he has natural cures for a myriad of serious illnesses, which he would love to reveal to you, but the Evil Government won't let him say anything in a book. You must visit his web site!

On the web site, Mr. Trudeau claims he has natural cures for a myriad of serious illnesses, which he would love to reveal to you, but the Evil Government won't let him say anything on his freely accessible web site. You must pay up and JOIN the web site, and then the secret cures will be revealed!

As a PAID member of his web site, you are dismayed to discover that the "cures" portion of the web site is "under construction"; nope, there are no cures there after all. Still, you are told, SOMEDAY, if you just keep on paying, astonishing natural cures will eventually be revealed! In the meantime, you are kindly told that you can e-mail Mr. Trudeau and he will write back, finally revealing his natural cure for what ails you in the one way he is allowed to do.

If you e-mail, you will never, ever hear back. ..."

Any ozone production was very small and incidental. UV is well known to be a powerfull germicide. So much so that it is now being used instead of Chlorine in some water treatment plants.

Ted

Beheading someone with a feather, you mean?

It's important to keep in mind that the effects depend upon *changing* magnetic field gradients. Thus we see that the observed results with TMS cannot validate the use of magnets.

Thank you, Mr. Faraday :)

So TMS is actually not a magnetic effect at all, but rather, localized generation of electricity. Right?

Unless, of course, you treat the cranial matter as a turn of a conductor in a magneto. ;-)