Info needed - Teccor Q4003M3 TRIAC

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I am replacing an old TRIAC that is used for a solenoid driver driven by  
a photo-flash (I have dozens of these in my classic rifle gallery) and I  
can't find anything on line about this particular device.

I know it is 400V, 3A, and is in a TO-11 like metal can however what I  
can't find is the Gate current. This is a sensitive gate TRIAC and I  
suspect it is either a 3MA or a 10MA device, but would like a copy of  
the original TECCOR specs to be sure that the replacement I am using is  
close enough to the original for long term reliability. This is being  
controlled by a device called a Vactrol - VTL2C3, and I have several  
dozen of these controllers that eventually need upgrading.

So, if anyone has a TECCOR Electronics Inc. manual lying around from the  
early 70s and can scan me the page(s) on the Q4003M3 that would be  
great. I have found sheets online for other flavours of the Q4003  
series, but just not the Mx version.

Thanks!

John :-#)#
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Re: Info needed - Teccor Q4003M3 TRIAC
snipped-for-privacy@flippers.com says...
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Try this page.

http://www.datasheetarchive.jp/shortform-datasheet/Q4003M3.html



Re: Info needed - Teccor Q4003M3 TRIAC
On 2017/08/26 12:20 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
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Ah, yes, I had previously found that page. I just trust the  
manufacturers spec sheets more than a synopsis version. It is probably  
accurate, but who knows?

Thanks,

John :-#)#

Re: Info needed - Teccor Q4003M3 TRIAC
John Robertson wrote:
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The Teccor triac part numbering scheme says that the "M" is for a  
non-isolated TO-218 package.  You could just substitute another package type  
such as the "F" or "R" package and get the same triac in a slightly  
different package.
Looks like the "M" package was discontinued for triacs years ago,

Dave M  



Re: Info needed - Teccor Q4003M3 TRIAC
On 2017/08/26 7:52 PM, Dave M wrote:
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Yes, I have tried already a few other sensitive gate TRIACs (2N6073 is  
close) in place of this one, but none seem to work the same way even  
when they appear to have similar ratings. The TRIAC is controlled by a  
LED/Photo-resistor (Vactrol) instead of a LED/Opto DIAC or similar.  
Appears to be using Quadrant II control where the Vactrol enables the  
TRIAC via a 12K resistor to M1 where M2 is connected to the load. M1 is  
tied to the power return/neutral (white) side of the 115VAC power. Here  
is the PDF circuit:

http://www.flippers.com/pdfs/Vactrol_controlled_TRIAC.pdf

I have tried subbing a MOC3020 LED-OptoTriac but that didn't work  
reliably. Basically this circuit works by a CDS cell on the input that  
reacts to a photoflash strobe in my rifles at the gallery. Problem is  
this is 1970s tech and they are gradually failing. Recapping helped, but  
now the opto-couplers are breaking down and my transistor theory is too  
weak to change this one-shot monostable timer output to trigger  
something more up to date in TRIAC drivers.

I just need to sit down and spend a couple of hours on this project.

Thanks,

John :-#)#

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Re: Info needed - Teccor Q4003M3 TRIAC
John Robertson wrote:
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Seems like a triggered one-shot 555 timer circuit would be a natural  
solution to this problem.  Circuit values are easily calculated for the  
required delay, and the 555 can drive the triac directly or through an  
optocoupler.

What's the normal ON time for the existing circuit?  Do you use only the  
photocell input or in conjunction with the reed switch input?

Dave M  



Re: Info needed - Teccor Q4003M3 TRIAC
Dave M wrote:
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This is a basic circuit for a 555 monostable.  Circuit values easily  
determined from one-shot requirements.


          Please view in a fixed-width font such as Courier.

                                +Vcc
                                  |
                                  |
                                  |                             AC
   +--------------+---------------+-------+                   +--
   |              |               |       |                   |
   |              |               |     +-+-+                 |
 +-+-+          +-+-+             |     |   |             +---+
 |   |          |   |             |     |   |             |   |
 |   |          |   |             |     |R3 |             |   |MT1
 |R1 |          |   |             |     |   |             | +-+-+
 |   |          |R2 |             |     |   | +--------+  | |   |
 |   |          |   |        +----+     +-+-+ |        |  | |   |
 |   |          |   |        |    |       +---+        +--+ |   |Triac
 +-+-+          +-+-+   +----+----+---+       |        |    |   |
   |              |     |    4    8   |       |  Opto  |  +-+G  |
   |              |     |             |       | Triac  |  | +-+-+
   +--------------------+2            |       | Driver |  |   |MT2
   |              |     |             |       |        |  |   |
   |              |     |             +-------+        +--+   |
   |              |     |             |       |        |      |
   |              |     |             |       +--------+      +--
 +-+-+            +-----+6            |                         Load
 |   |            |     |  NE555      |
 |   |            |     |             |
 |   |Photo       +-----+7            |
 |   |Cell        |     |             |
 |   |            |     |             |
 +-+-+            |     |             |
   |            +-+-+   |             |
   |            |   |   |             |
 --+--          |   |   |   5      1  |
  Gnd           |C1 |   +----+-----+--+
                |   |        |     |
                |   |      +-+-+   |
                +-+-+      |   |   |
                  |        |C2 |   |
                  |        |   |   |
                --+--      |   |   |
                 Gnd       +-+-+   |
                             |     |
                             |     |
                             +-----+
                                   |
                                   |
                                 --+--
                                  Gnd

Dave M  



Re: Info needed - Teccor Q4003M3 TRIAC


Dave M wrote:
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Oopsie!!
Got the 555 output connected the wrong way to the opto driver.  Here's =
the way it should be:

            Please view in a fixed-width font such as Courier.

                           +Vcc
                             |
                             |
                             |
   +---------+---------------+----------------+
   |         |               |                |
   |         |               |              +-+-+
 +-+-+     +-+-+             |              |   |
 |   |     |   |             |              |   |                   AC
 |   |     |   |             |              |R4 |                 +--
 |R1 |     |   |             |              |   |                 |
 |   |     |R2 |             |              |   |                 |
 |   |     |   |        +----+              +-+-+ +--------+  +---+
 |   |     |   |        |    |                |   |        |  |   |
 +-+-+     +-+-+   +----+----+---+            +---+        +--+   |MT1
   |         |     |    4    8   |                |        |    +-+-+
   |         |     |             |                |  Opto  |    |   |
   +---------------+2            |                | Triac  |    |   |
   |         |     |             |                | Driver |    |   =
|Triac
   |         |     |             |                |        |    |   |
   |         |     |             |             +--+        +----+G  |
   |         |     |             |             |  |        |    +-+-+
 +-+-+       +-----+6            |             |  +--------+      |MT2
 |   |       |     |  NE555      |             |    MOC3022       |
 |   |       |     |             |             |                  |
 |   |Photo  +-----+7            |             |                  |
 |   |Cell   |     |             |             +----+             +--
 |   |       |     |             |                  |C              Load
 +-+-+       |     |             |                 /
   |       +-+-+   |             |  +-------+  B |/
   |       |   |   |            3+--+  R3   +----+ 2N3904
 --+--     |   |   |   5      1  |  +-------+    |\
  Gnd      |C1 |   +----+-----+--+                 \
           |   |        |     |                     |E
           |   |      +-+-+   |                     |
           +-+-+      |   |   |                   --+--
             |        |C2 |   |                    Gnd
             |        |   |   |
           --+--      |   |   |
            Gnd       +-+-+   |
                        |     |
                        |     |
                        +-----+
                              |
                              |
                            --+--
                             Gnd


Dave M

Re: Info needed - Teccor Q4003M3 TRIAC
On 2017/08/27 1:03 PM, Dave M wrote:
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Hi Dave,

Yes, a 555 timer would be a more reliable timer for a replacement  
circuit. The time is anywhere from 1 to five seconds depending on the  
operation required, which is easy with the 555. And yes, turning the  
TRIAC on/off rapidly with a reed switch is sometimes needed.

Not sure if the 555 can be reliably triggered via a CDS cell using a  
strobe flash when there are varying light levels - day/night, and flood  
lamps - which is the current situation.

Easy enough to test though I may just give up and go with some sort of  
Arduino replacement system where I can have several devices run by a few  
Arduinos (I have 60 of these boxes you see) and this would reduce or  
eliminate false positives that I get when there is a bright flash that  
lights up the entire area - right now everything fires off if someone  
takes a flash photo with a camera, but are not set off with a flash  
photo using a cell phone - LED flashes don't effect CDS cells much it seems.

Thanks,

John :-#)#

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Re: Info needed - Teccor Q4003M3 TRIAC
Hi,

Electronic Surplus in Ohio has a version available in a different  
package.  I don't know it this helps or not but:

http://www.electronicsurplus.com/catalogsearch/result/?cat=0&q=Q4003

I've found them to be a reliable vendor.

Regards,
Tim



On 8/26/2017 10:46 AM, John Robertson wrote:
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