what you are describing is a schucko plug TYPE F used in Europe NOT the Uk . uk plug has 3 flat pins in triangle formation, TYPE G. top one (earth) slighly longer to enable spring-loaded shielding in the socket to move downwards revealing the live /neutral only when a plug inserted.. see:
formatting link
-B.
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J
Just Another Theremin Fan
Not in the UK it's not! All equipment fitted with 2 pin plugs must be double insulated for exactly this reason. One leaky cap' could make any metal lethal.
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Dave Plowman (News)
I can assure you it is common. But the amount of current leaked to the chassis and accessed via a phono socket screen etc is too small to be a risk. But you can still feel it under certain conditions.
*A snooze button is a poor substitute for no alarm clock at all *
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
J
Just Another Theremin Fan
It is a FACT that capacitors DO sometimes go short circuit and although it is some time since I worked on domestic equipment I simply cannot see a such potentially dangerous practise as caps' directly connected to external metalwork from the mains getting past the design stage.
I will check latest spec' and get back....
S
Sjouke Burry
Any mains input filter I have ever seen, contains those capacitors,and all computers and periferal equipment have them . If they would not have them, they could never pass the high frequency leak rules, and your mains wiring would turn into nice transmitting arials so that all radios and tv's in the neighbourhood would become useless. Those filters look like a nice solid block,but inside are some blocking ferrite coils and decoupling capaciters to ground. And you should not use any hardware without a ground connection, it stops radiating interference, and without the ground connection you can blow your hardware when connecting a cable between them,even if they are switched off(when signalwire makes contact before the groundwire). It also stops you from feeling tingling (or worse). As for the capacitor going shortcicuit, as long as you are using ground, it will safely blow the fuse or the leak protection.
M
Mika Lindblad
Those are X2-rated (or similar) capacitors. Manufacturer guarantees that they will not short circuit when broken. However, eventually some of them will (nothings perfect). So, current flows to protective earth and fuse blows.
As long as equipment is properly grounded, there's no problem. If it ain't, there might be lot's of 'em. Like burning the whole machine and getting electric shock.
- Mika Lindblad
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Just Another Theremin Fan
Yes that is what the thread is about. 2 pin mains supply which probably won't be grounded so why should a person get a shock from touching a customer accessible part of the cabinet?
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Dave Plowman (News)
IIRC, they're not normally connected direct to the signal earth or case but via a high value resistor. And those don't fail short circuit.
RFI suppression using this sort of technique has been common for probably
30 years or more. The usual answer is to plug in the signal leads before applying the power - which is good practice anyway.
*A picture may be worth a thousand words, but it uses up a thousand times more
memory.
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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Sjouke Burry
Any resistor would make them totally useless. The cap resitance must be near zero for high frequency's.And plugging with power off does not protect your inputs,the filter comes before your main switch, and the cap current can damage a mosfet input,even if it is only microamps,the voltage is half the mains voltage,when there is no ground path.
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Mr Fixit
I think you need to do some investigations into this as none of my HiFi TV DVD CD's or VCR's has an earth connection as its all connected via 2 core mains cables?????? and this is how it was designed to work from the manufacturers
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Just Another Theremin Fan
No but resistors do change value. High resistance ones usually downwards.
"Good practise"? Err this is customer devices we are talking about....
BTW, I have just opened up my recent DVD player to have a look (UK) and there are NO capacitors going from mains to chassis.
M
mowhoong
J
Just Another Theremin Fan
A properly designed circuit should not radiate any noise. If it does take the equipment back to the supplier as faulty.
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