GE has been pushing theirs for several years, with commercials featuring irresistibly adorable snow monkeys.
I considered getting one, but the dealer told me they don't work well in a condo, because it's hard to make a good "ground" connection.
Flash heaters have been around for at least 60 years (probably longer). My father sold appliances and used to talk about them. CU discussed them several years ago, and decided that their high cost and difficulty of installation did not make them (generally) a good choice. Of course, if you use substantial amounts of hot water all day long, they make sense.
Still quite mediocre. I've been building my own LED retrofits for indoor lighting, using Cree 100 Lm/W LEDs. When you add the power supply, you are down to 80 Lm/W or so, but that is still pretty good, even better than good CFLs.
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 09:07:01 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote as underneath :
Interesting, I am UK based and energy costs here are probably much higher here than in US which may alter the costings so much that a heat pump wont be feasible for you... Here is a link for info that might help:
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I checked with Ebay.com and ebay.co.uk - completely different answers if you feed in 'air source/water heat pump'. The low cost heatpumps are mostly produced in China anyway and I guess many are sold in the US for pool heating and air conditioning? But if your electricity costs are low then the payback time on the equipment may not make sense just for a little domestic hot water... Ground source is much more expensive on the outlay than air source! C+
I'd suggest to buy one, and try it in some sort of fixture, before going up the pole. I'd dare to guess the answer is yes, but you'd have to try it for yourself.
True. The alleged savings of a heat pump water heater would be in the reduced operating costs due to improved efficiency. My hot water usage is so small that the initial entry costs (equipment, installation, plumbing, and permits) would negate any short term savings. Short term is important as I'm 66 years old, and would not want to invest in a technology with a break even point that occurs after I'm dead. I would do better with short term solutions, such as better tank and plumbing insulation, which provide an immediate savings with a minimal investment. (Actually, I'm looking for an excuse to buy a FLIR thermal camera to play with).
Thanks. The plumbing diagram of a complete systems, with gas water heater backup, and a typical installation, was sufficient to convince me this was not an option for me. The amount of construction involved in the installation alone is more than I could justify. I suspect that an air source water heating system would be more suitable for a larger installation, or for where the cost of electricity is much higher.
I don't know, but that seems likely. Swimming pool heating, hot tubs, air conditioning, and apartment building water heating seem like a better fit, where the savings in electricity would be larger than the amortized initial investment.
Incidentally, you might be amused at how water heaters are rated and priced. A few years ago, the bottom of my 40 gallon electric water heater filled with calcium carbonate causing the lower heating element to blow out. It was rusted in place and not easily replaced. The heater was old, so I decided a new heater was best. I went to the local Home Depot store and noticed that heaters were rated and priced by their warranty life as 6, 9, and 12 year heaters. Current prices are: $248, $338, and $548 respectively. I asked what was the difference and received a few bad guesses. The weight of these heaters was exactly the same, so there was no difference in tank design or construction. The 6 year heater used lower power elements, but that shouldn't effect the cost.
I eventually determined that the primary difference was the anode protection rod in each heater. The 6 year heater used a very small anode rod. The 9 year used a much larger anode. The 12 year had dual anodes. The problem was the rods cost about $25/each which is reflected in the $100 to $200 price difference between the three models. The 6 year heater had the port for the 2nd anode sealed shut, so I bought the 9 year model, and added a 2nd anode for a cost of about $25. Net savings from the 12 year model: $548 - $338 - $25 = $185 I also installed a permanent drain line, so that the calcium carbonate will not accumulate again.
Yep. That's the problem. The most efficient system is not always the most economical.
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Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
If you are sensitive to strobing you should be wary of lights that others complain of strobing . Some fluorescent lights I have appear to flicker in my peripheral vision. Not only is this distracting just because of the flickering or strobing, I also find myself constantly looking for whatever is moving. Using incandescent lighting along with fluorescent lighting cures the strobing or flickering effect for me so I have both in my shop. I can't detect the strobing by looking directly at the lights, it is only in my peripheral vision. This of course makes sense. I want to change to LED lighting and have been looking at several types and brands of lighting. Part of the problem is getting lighting that is the right color for me. The industry seems to be making LED lighting now that is pretty good for most folks so I am hopeful that in the near future I will be able to convert my machine shop and house to LEDs. Eric
Of course you should change your anode every few years - assuming you can extract it. The house we bought last summer has a replaceable anode but I can't unscrew it. The tank will fail in a year or two, but then I'm looking for one with a replaceable anode and do a bi-annual change.
John :-#)#
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I learned a few lessons trying to extract the anode rod from the old tank. With the tank empty, a long handled "torque amplifier" did a great job of twisting the water heater jacket into a simulated pretzel. I didn't know I was that strong. It might have survived if it had water inside and I didn't put my foot on the jacket when applying brute force. Learn by Destroying(tm).
When I mentioned the problem to a plumber, he indicated that it was a common problem, and that an electric or pneumatic impact wrench works much better. I didn't have a reason to try it, so I don't know if that's really a good idea. Also, when I installed the 2nd anode rod, I smeared it with some edible grease. Insulating it with Teflon tape doesn't seem like a good idea. In a year or two, try the impact wrench.
I found some instructions on how to remove the rod, which recommends WD-40 and an impact wrench. Getting the WD-40 out of the water is going to be interesting since it's not water soluble.
In my derangement, I didn't have enough clearance above the water heater to insert or remove the rod. They make anodes that are on a chain to make it possible to replace them without proper clearance, but I didn't buy one of those. So, I tipped over the water heater, inserted the 2nd rod, tipped it back up, and continued the installation. When it's time to replace either rod, I'll need to drain the heater, disconnect everything, tip it over again, and extract the rods. Not fun, bad planning, etc.
I'm not sure of the exact anode replacement interval. The previous water heater lasted about 15 years before the lime accumulation killed the lower heater element. I assume the lifetime is affected by whatever is in the water. Inspecting the anode rod would be helpful, but if it's stuck or difficult to remove, that might be difficult.
Good luck and how did we get from LED lighting to water heaters?
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Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 07:13:48 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote as underneath :
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What are these tanks made of that they need sacrificial anodes (of magnesium etc. I assume)? As far as I know over here most/all these type of tanks and cylinders are Cu sheet and have no anodes of this type.. ! Informative post tho! C+
Not copper. That would be far too expensive. The tank is made from steel, which is either enamel or glass coated for protection. The problem is that the glass or enamel can crack (or micro-crack) allowing the water to contact the steel and eventually corrode a hole in the tank. The sacrificial anode corrodes instead of the steel tank. It's exactly the same as the common zinc sacrificial anode used to protect steel hulls on boats.
Note: I am not a plumber, expert on hot water tanks, or hydraulic engineer. I just happen to have had some experience replacing my water tank twice in 35 years and found it useful to first read the available literature before making any more mistakes.
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Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Same method I used, except the heater had 40 gallons of water in it. It didn't move, but eventually the anode rod cap did.
Seriously? You think the teflon tape will insulate it? Pipe threads are designed for an interference fit, the pipe threads will cut through the tape with ease. The tape is just to fill the gap between the male & female threads.
Just bend the rods when you remove them, they're either magnesium or aluminum alloy on a wire. Replace with the bendable variety.
Inspect the rods every year or two, when you start to see mostly wire it's time for replacement.
No. It would reduce the contact area. However, the current through the anode is so low, it probably would make no difference.
With Teflon tape filling the gaps, I can re-insert the rod using less torque than I would with a metal to metal fit, thus making it easier to remove at a later date, and hopefully maintaining a leak proof seal. At least that's my theory, which remains untested.
This was a new rod that I was trying to insert, so bending was not an option. I should have purchased the sausage style of rod.
On my water heater (GE/Rheem something), I have two separate holes for the two rods. On some others, the 2nd rod is combined with the hot water outlet, making inspection rather awkward: I'm tempted to add yet another hole and see if a borescope inspection camera will.
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Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
The manufacturer of the LED lamp has published some photometric data (accessible via the link you posted). According to that data, the luminary in question has a maximum output of 1165 lumens (lm).
That 1165 lm is not very much.
A normal (non-halogen) 200W incandescent lamp has a light output of 2500 lm (according to the datasheet for the Osram "Centra A CL 200"), and that's a "mechanically rugged" type lamp with a thick filament that is not even particularly efficient.
A 200W halogen incandescent lamp has a light output of 3500 lm (3520 lm according to the datasheet for the Philips "Plusline Small 200W R7s 230V").
Depending on how efficient your previous lamp has been, you'll likely need to either double or triple the LED lamp in order to match it.
I had a halogen light there for a whlle, but the socket on one side burned out, or got hot and crumbled. I didn't even think about efficency when it was installed, or when I replaced it. Shame on me.
I ended up getting an led fixture that rates itself twice as bright as the url I gave in the OP. I'm not going to say what it is, because I've learned from experience that one or more people will tell me it's no good, and I don't want to hear that now, since I've already bought it and may put ii in any minute now.
Thanks for the informative reply. For the sake of electricity, I'm glad I didn't get incandescent this time. Maybe no more lightbulb changing.
(I hope to go away for a few weeks next february and I didn't want to wait until spring to fix the lights.)
True. But otoh, the appliance is rated in watts. People have to keep track of their own time, the time they keep the tub hot, which is presumably the same no matter what the voltage.
Is this perhaps a gas water heater? When I took my electric water heater apart, it had a steel shell but inside that was a flexible plastic of some sort, milky clear/white, with maybe glass embedded in the plastic. It was 1/4" thick or more and was never going to break, because I pulled it away from the metal and bend it 60 degrees and there was no cracking.
It was sold by Sears but seemed identical to the one that was first in the house, by A.O.Smith. (I'm not positive it's labeled glass-lined but people make it sound like all of the tanks are.)
When I brought it home I worried about dropping it, because I had heard they were lined with glass, so I thought they would be fragile, but like I say, it would have been impossible to break the glass.
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