Home LED Flickers

I got a 60W Equliv. LED bulb in a fixture that flickers all the time. Its not very old. It does produce enough light but gets annoying after awhile. They only cost a buck or two, so i'll just replace it, but I wonder what is causing the flicker?

My guess is a cheap electrolytic in the rectifier, but I have never really seen a schematic for how they are wired.

Reply to
tubeguy
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A buck or two ?

Reply to
KenW

Does the fixture wire it directly to the mains or does it have some kind of switching, wireless, touch, dimmer, anything but direct wire to the mains?

What's your definition of flicker? Some bulbs have noticeable flicker at line frequency. Most flicker at a much lower rate if you put some electronics in the middle. It's the electronics that expects the resistive load of an incandescent that flickers.

Reply to
mike

I have some similar bulbs in a bathroom fixture. They flicker when the wife runs a certain curling iron on the same circuit. Is there anything else running on your lighting circuit?

Reply to
Terry Schwartz

Was the bulb holder designed for an LED or was it originally for a filament bulb? Some of the smaller LEDs, such as G9, can overheat in a non-ventilated holder. This can show as flickering; usually it's the power control chip rather than the LEDs themselves which goes first. The bulb will eventually fail.

--

Jeff
Reply to
Jeff Layman

** So about 11 watts power draw.

** Try a different and newer fixture, the low current draw often requires the metal parts to be cleaner and freer of tarnish than is often the case.
** Nuts.

.... Phil

Reply to
Phil Allison

Tell us the nature of the flicker. Very fast & completely consistent would be a rectifier/smoothing issue. Irregular flicker would be a bad connection or less likely a dying LED.

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

$1.77 ea at Home Depot (US Dollars)

Reply to
Pat

Yeah but it depends where you live.

Here in Chicago you can walk in just about anywhere and expect to pay .99 to maybe $1.49 for a 60W led standard bulb.

The reason being, the local electric company got dick slapped for rate increases which went to executive salaries, bahama vacations and golden parachutes instead of the "infrastructure improvements" they claimed what they were for. After the states attorney and citizens utility board got them to audit their books, the truth came out.

So their rates were frozen for 10 years and then for a period of time I'm not sure of, have to subsidize the costs of energy saving devices, which led bulbs fall under. They also pay you $50 for replacing some older appliances.

I'm not sure they still do it, haven't looked, but like Home Depot even had a special rack for the subsidized bulbs. I though it was odd but some of them available were 100W incandesent ones, but they only used 80W of electric but gave out the same amount of light. Those were considered energy saving too.

It's about the only bargain with living in Chicago these days.

-bruce snipped-for-privacy@ripco.com

Reply to
bje

I am presently managing replacement of all incandescent/fluorescent fixture s in just over 1,000,000 square feet of medical offices, research labs and a medical school on a single campus.

There are two parts of an LED lamp/fixture.

a) The LED emitters themselves: These are pretty generic beasts, and while not-quite-one-size-fits-all, the same emitter may provide light from betwee n 3000K to 5000K. They are also pretty bullet-proof.

b) The "Driver" - which is a device that takes current from some source and makes it into what the emitters want for a particular type (Temperature an d CRI) of output.

Common failure modes are:

flickering - 90% - and what you are experiencing. Massive RF output - 5% - so massive as to even step on cell phones and blue

-tooth frequencies on rare occasions, but mostly lower bands.

*POOF* on start - 5% Sometimes more than one fault per item.

Whereas these drivers are not delicate items, they fail often enough as tha t such a failure should surprise no one. Our installing contractor states t hat failures on commercial-grade devices are somewhere between 0.25% and 2.

5% depending on the country-of-origin of the drivers, and where the devices are assembled. Consumer-grade devices experience a much higher failure rat e.

Most failures occur within the first 4-6 hours of use.

Keep the receipt, and return the flickering item.

Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

Reply to
peterwieck33

in excellent quality lamps maybe. Not at all bullet-proof in domestic LED lights.

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

Possibly true, but the failure mode of an emitter is not flicker.

Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

Reply to
peterwieck33

sometimes it is, but more often not.

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

As an LED is a go/no-go device, flicker is indicative of a condition outside the emitter. Full stop.

Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

Reply to
peterwieck33

I know you think you're right about everything, but you're not. LEDs do sometimes go into flickering mode. You could go google if you don't believe me, it's not that hard to do.

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 12:16:11 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wro te:

ometimes go into flickering mode. You could go google if you don't believe me, it's not that hard to do.

Where does flicker come from? To better understand flickering in lights, consider the theatrical effect k nown as strobe lighting. This is a deliberate flicker effect that delivers light at certain frequencies, causing the brain to interpret moving objects as if they were in slow motion. These specified frequencies are generally just a few flashes per second, but they are very close to frequencies that cause epileptic seizures.

Unintentional flickering in lighting equipment can be traced back to our po wer companies that designed electricity flow to use alternating current (AC ) as opposed to direct current (DC). With AC power, the sine wave will peak both positively and negatively. This leaves it susceptible to being in a r ange that will cause flickering, or sometimes an audible hum.

How to solve LED flickering issues? LED flickering can be tied back to the driver component within the lamp. Th e essential purpose of the LED driver design is to rely on a simple circuit to control output current, but without altering the frequency, the LED bec omes likely to show visible flicker. However, this can be fixed by using co nstant current drivers, which remove the peaks of the sine wave.

Power correction components within the driver circuit must also be addresse d. Without this, ripple currents in the power flow will cause flickering.

Ultimately if the driver design of the LED bulb meets the requirements of b oth a stable DC current and ample ripple suppression, there should be no fl icker. If flickering is present in your LED lamp (and you are not dimming w ith it), it was likely created with cheap driver components. The technology in LED lighting has advanced to the point where this should not happen, un fortunately there are companies that care more about their bottom line than the health of their customers.

How Dimming Causes LED Flickering Another challenging variable for LED lamps to avoid flickering is through d imming. Most standard wall dimmers work by phase cutting, which removes par t of the sine wave and reduces the voltage. However, this can have negative affects on an LED circuit and actually result in the flicker effect being amplified to a potentially dangerous level (3-15Hz range).

This is one of the main reasons why it?s hard to trust old dimming systems with new LED bulbs. The only way to be sure no flickering will be p resent is to get LED-specific dimming solutions for your LED lamps. It all comes back to the fact that LED is a long-term investment. In turn it is wo rth doing research to ensure you are getting a quality LED bulb, and that i f you plan to dim with it you are getting an LED dimming system that has be en tested as being compatible to the LED bulbs you intend to use. _________________________________________________________________________

Now, show us a link where the emitter is the cause of the flicker, and not the driver.

Otherwise, understand that the Bellman's Proof is not a valid argument.

Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

Reply to
peterwieck33

sometimes go into flickering mode. You could go google if you don't believ e me, it's not that hard to do.

known as strobe lighting. This is a deliberate flicker effect that deliver s light at certain frequencies, causing the brain to interpret moving objec ts as if they were in slow motion. These specified frequencies are generall y just a few flashes per second, but they are very close to frequencies tha t cause epileptic seizures.

power companies that designed electricity flow to use alternating current ( AC) as opposed to direct current (DC). With AC power, the sine wave will pe ak both positively and negatively. This leaves it susceptible to being in a range that will cause flickering, or sometimes an audible hum.

The essential purpose of the LED driver design is to rely on a simple circu it to control output current, but without altering the frequency, the LED b ecomes likely to show visible flicker. However, this can be fixed by using constant current drivers, which remove the peaks of the sine wave.

sed. Without this, ripple currents in the power flow will cause flickering.

both a stable DC current and ample ripple suppression, there should be no flicker. If flickering is present in your LED lamp (and you are not dimming with it), it was likely created with cheap driver components. The technolo gy in LED lighting has advanced to the point where this should not happen, unfortunately there are companies that care more about their bottom line th an the health of their customers.

dimming. Most standard wall dimmers work by phase cutting, which removes p art of the sine wave and reduces the voltage. However, this can have negati ve affects on an LED circuit and actually result in the flicker effect bein g amplified to a potentially dangerous level (3-15Hz range).

g systems with new LED bulbs. The only way to be sure no flickering will be present is to get LED-specific dimming solutions for your LED lamps. It al l comes back to the fact that LED is a long-term investment. In turn it is worth doing research to ensure you are getting a quality LED bulb, and that if you plan to dim with it you are getting an LED dimming system that has been tested as being compatible to the LED bulbs you intend to use.

t the driver.

Man you can be stupid. Go educate yourself. Or not.

Reply to
tabbypurr

Thought not.

Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

Reply to
peterwieck33

you've earnt your ignorance and you get to keep it.

Reply to
tabbypurr

For someone who rears up like an injured virgin when called out, you have lost a priceless opportunity to humiliate your oppressor.

That would be earned. Whereas Earnt is correct, it is non-standard and somewhat pretentious. Similar to your inferred virginity.

Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

Reply to
peterwieck33

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