Automatic Volume Leveling (AVL)

would

I'm quite happy , if watching off air, to zap to another channel for a few minutes. But I would like an auto insert "PIP" of the otherwise viewed channel so as not to miss the after-ad return.

-- Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on

Have you heard the results of these built in ones? Ok, I suppose, if your standards stop at AM radio quality.

The snag with this sort of device is it has to have a fast attack time to work and a fairly slow recovery. And will work on any programme peak - not just commercials. Make it fast attack and fast recovery and background sounds will pump up and down - most unpleasant.

The *only* way you can get smooth transitions between the vast variety of programme material - and the variety of commercials - is buy having a human rehearse that transition and adjust things accordingly. (Advertisers

- who fund the programmes - would not be happy if their product was quieter than the progs). But playout systems are largely automated these days to save on labour costs.

I am replying without first searching the web, but I do remember seeing adverts over the years for a variety of ALC devices for TVs; the good ones IIRC used to inspect the vertical interval for clues to program changes, and also used timing heuristics to predict commercial placement. I believe that such a device using learning algorithms with human training input would have been _very_ effective, after all, at least in the U.S. on major networks, a human can very easily predict when commercials occur and when the level is excessive.

Regards,

Michael

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There is special commercially available equipment made to reduce/ compress the spacing between words without changing the pitch of the voice, so that the density of the sound is higher. The actual volume is the same, but the increased density of the sound makes it seem louder. This of course only works on prerecorded commercials, as a 35 second commercial can be reduced to 28-32 seconds using the compression technique. At one time I worked at a radio station and this feature was an added-cost item for advertisers.

H. R. (Bob) Hofmann

Here in Nashville--and I suppose many other places--there are a lot of 'local option' commercials. IOW, there's a commercial on the satellite feed, but it gets pre-empted by one chosen by the cable operator.

Here, the audio levels on these local options commercials is all over the place; usually WAY too loud, but sometimes (blessedly) barely audible. You can tell they're local option because either the subject is a local business, or sometimes you see just a 'blip' of another commercial before they cut to the replacement.

Very annoying when you're listening to a movie with the volume up, or you have the TV on as background to fall asleep by....

jak

That's the same problem we have and it drives us crazy! Does anyone have a newer TV with the built-in AVL feature, and how well does it work?

You can call your provider. So far, I haven't gotten that far, but IIRC, there are regulations about relative volume...might not apply for cable, but over the air....

The issue is with the (less than) technical help the cable company (in my case ComCast) employs to drop in the commercials.

jak

TV is advertisements! They don't make money from their viewers by you watching movies. They know you'll turn up the volume to listen to the movie and get blasted from the commercials which places a subliminal impact on your brain in hopes that when you are in the store, you'll have some interest in that product and have no idea why!

You must remember, shock and fear are the best methods for programming the brain! That is, if you got one! It's all about the big green! or what ever color it is! :)

Except when they make it so obvious that you have no doubt as to what they're doing. Annoying your clientele is not a formula for increased sales.

jak

You mean "to play with all the shiny buttons."

It's a world wide thing. I recently got a satellite receiver with dish rotator and can receive some 5000 programmes. If you can call them that. ;-) And most attempt to get the picture levels near right but seem to let the audio look after itself. Peak levels vary by over 30dB, some stereo ones are out of phase or only transmit one leg and high levels of distortion tend to be the norm with the smaller channels.

Mine has it but it sounds horrible, so it's never used. To be fair I'm an audio type working in TV production so may be more critical than some.

The big snag is there's no way of measuring loudness accurately. It's the holy grail to develop a device which does so to all's satisfaction. Conventional metering systems can read peak or average levels but don't take into account the perceived loudness to the ear - or rather brain. And the other big snag is that what is too loud to one isn't to another - just think about the music your kids listen to. ;-)

Again it depends on the programme preceding the ads. If a brash game show etc chances are the ads won't sound louder. If some drama with a poignant end chances are they will.

In February of this year, I bought a new Toshiba 27 inch flat screen tv set.The tv set had the AVL feature, I could click on it (in the menu) and use it or not.About two days later the screen developed a blob/blotch on the bottom left side of the screen.I took the tv set back to the store and I paid about $34.00 difference in price for a new Sony Trinitron Wega 27 inch flat screen tv set.The Sony gets a much better picture than the Toshiba did, but the Sony doesn't have the AVL feature.I use the Mute button (or change channels for a while) on my tv remote when most commercials are on there.I think the higher price Sony tv sets do have the AVL feature.Yep, some tv commercials are wayyyy too loud.I need something that looks sort of like a wrist watch that has a big tv Mute button on it. cuhulin

Huh uh. We're talking about levels, like you said, varying by 30 dB. I haven't measured it here, but it could be that much. It's about local cable companies charging $55/month for 'basic' cable, but not hiring somebody to simply *listen* to the feed when they dump in commercials which are wildly different in level. It's NOT a matter of opinion when you turn the volume to a point where it's barely background level, and then get jolted out of your sleep by a literally blaring commercial.

It's mostly about money and an unwillingness to pay for technical competency. The over the air stations, when I listen to/watch them, don't have this problem to nearly this degree.

jak

jak

adjust

ever

would

I don't think it is very easy to design what you are looking for - at least not so it is affordable.

As to why do the ads seem louder? - read this

In fact the maximum level of the ads is not greater than the normal program material, its just that the ad level is more constant per unit time, thus the average level is greater than that of the program material. Advertisers are aware of this trick so they ensure that the dialogue is constant throughout the ads.

That's probably true of national network shows broadcast over the air. I was referring to 'local option' commercials dubbed in by a cable company. As I said earlier in the thread, often the difference in level is *downward*, not louder.

I've been a sound engineer for over 30 years. I know what loud is, and I know what compression sounds like.

jak

Crikey - I was talking about between different channels on satellite. Don't think I've noted that on any one channel.

Think you'll find even the major channels don't do that either these days. Trouble is it wouldn't be one person but a team to cover 24/7 - and an expensive team of skilled personnel to work effectively. Then there'd be the problem of an advertiser claiming his ad didn't sound loud enough if it were altered. And they are the paymasters - not you. Unless legislated for. They rely on the material being transcribed into their server at the correct level - or being supplied as such on whatever material they transmit from. And as I said thereby is the problem as relative loudness depends on programme content.

I'd rather not watch TV that sends me to sleep. ;-)

Indeed - but plenty still complain about the major channels where more care is taken. And have done (in the UK) since commercial TV started. ITV in the UK do have a maximum peak level for commercials some 4dB lower than progs. Which mostly works - but not always.

It's a bit out of date.

There's no reason why you can't do the same thing with prog material. As indeed is done with things like game shows and sit coms. But it is rather inappropriate for serious drama, etc.