target builder tools for embedded-like system

i've got a relatively simple goal. set up a solid-state, VME, compactflash(as ide) type box that will support a single java application.

i want to build and deploy a minimal kernel, a small set of utilities, (for now) j2re (j2me ultimately), and about 5 megs worth of java application.

i don't need any application dev. tools as my app will run fine on this box with j2re (installed redhat on 1G flash to test things out).

i want to fit it onto a 64M flash card and ultimately will make the images on this disk read only and will run everything on ramdisk.

there are plenty of tools out there, and i've tried many:

tools:

bluecat linux - you get a 30 day demo. i spent most of that 30 days figuring out how to use bluecat itself, finding bugs in it, wasting time on poorly written, incomplete documentation. the support is good, but you'll use it to figure out bluecat itself rather than on the target OS that you're trying to create.

qplus - OS version of target builder. downloaded it and attempted to install. most of the RPMS were corrupted in the tarball offered on sourceforge. spent hours getting non-corrupt rpms. finally got it installed. couldn't get past configure screen due to a bug in the setup process.

metroworks/lineo "target wizard" / platform creation suite - got a 30 day demo. don't know if this app functioned before metroworks bought it, but it doesn't work very well now. lots of bugs, crashing, corrupt images, locking up. also poor documentation, missing tarballs, hacks required to build images (tool wants files called "mwlinux*" at stage ii, but creates files called 'emblinux*' in stage i. this app is not something anyone should be paying for at this point. it's either still beta, or metroworks screwed it up after buying it. i will say this could be a killer app for building embedded systems if it worked.

distros:

peeweelinux - downloaded files that wouldn't work, apparently this is OSS junk

various other mini dists - all seem to be specialized for routers or pdas or firewalls.

redhat - can't easily shrink it below a few hundred megs.

...

so what i'd really like is either a tool such as "target wizard" that works (probably doesn't exist) OR a ready to go distro that is generic, small and will support j2re.

given that j2re is going to take up 40M or more, i need the OS to use less than

15M if i want to fit everything on this 64M card.

am i looking for a shortcut that doesn't exist? any suggestions linux lovers?

harry

Reply to
Harry Slaughter
Loading thread data ...

Try ptxdist. It's simple, small, and might do what you want. You'll have to supply your own j2re, but ptxdist can build the minimal kernel and utilities. It wants to build the compiler and glibc, too, but you can tell it to use an existing toolchain; I do. Join their mailing list if you have any trouble at all, it's a nice crew.

ptxdist is at

formatting link

- Dan

Reply to
Dan Kegel

compactflash(as

(for now)

box with

on

[SNIP stuff that didn't work]

works

and will

than

lovers?

Why not build your own Linux bootable flash disk from scratch and only add the tools and libraries that you really need? This link gives pretty good directions on how to get started:

formatting link

My system ended up being a read-only 8MB root partition for Lilo, the kernel, busybox, devfsd, basic libraries and config stuff in /etc, the /tmp and /var filesystems in RAM. There's still ways to trim that down. That should leave you plenty of room for j2re and your Java app.

Rob

Reply to
Rob Turk

primary reason this wasn't my first choice is i'm not familiar with the boot process. i've only used lilo as a dumb end user :). i still wouldn't even know how to create a bootable floppy :) though i'm going to try to learn eventually, maybe the link you gave me will be a start.

and i've never ever built a linux system from scratch, let alone a tiny (less than 20M) linux. also, i am not sure what a 'toolset' is (assumming it's a target binary (eg ifconfig) and required libs) or how to create one.

lastly, i'm fighting a small battle. i've been telling my boss how quickly i could create a tiny linux OS to support our Java app. if i can show him this yet to be created system up and running, we would not use winNT which is the defacto platform for this app. so i'm trying to get this thing put together very quickly, which is why i was hoping one of these tools would actually work.

but how often is it that a tool such as embedix actually works? it's always unfulfilled promises of rapid deployment, dependency checks, ease of use.... blah blah, and never true.

so since bluecat and now embedix have proven more hassle than they're worth (yes i fell for the marketing crap once again), maybe i should just go back to basics. kernel.org, busybox, etc...

and i suppose if i can create a bootable floppy myself, i can probably create a bootable flashcard :) maybe that's where i should start...

tks for your help

Reply to
Harry Slaughter

Which VME are you talking about here ?

Have you tried ours? It shouldn't be too hard to cram a JRE into it.

formatting link

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Damion de Soto - Software Engineer  email:     damion@snapgear.com
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
Damion de Soto

That's what ptxdist is, pretty much. Very vanilla, with a thin menuconfig + makefile wrapper.

- Dan

Reply to
Dan Kegel

did you try ELinOS ?

-Michael

Reply to
Michael Schnell

I use

formatting link
but I would because I wrote the software and I work for ashdown electronics. (For some more screenshots, follow the link at the bottom of this page.)

The idea of the softare is that you have a pool of source code on your target (or compiled binaries/libraries where necessary, e.g. Java), and create 'nodes' in the host pane for selecting into a project.

Note that the GUI tool is NOT open source, but there again it's only 135 quid so its not really expensive.

The reason why I wrote it is because I was getting involved in some developments that I could use Linux for but couldn't find any nice simple tools (and this software is pretty simple) around to do what I wanted. Mind you, at the time I didn't know abount Elinos and pxdist.

There is an example project on the disk which is intended to get a minimal system up and running quite quickly. If your target is intel based and you can use your host tools as a basis for compiling source to be installed on the target, then getting a fully operational linux system can be done pretty quickly. It takes me less than 30 minutes to configure the target software, configure the target configuration scripts, compile the source code, format the compact flash, install the software to a compact flash, install a LILO bootloader, plug the compact flash into the target, and boot. 30 minutes isn't very long, but the reason why it takes so little time is because you don't need to compile many packages for a minimal complete system, i.e. busybox, kernel, bootloader, standard libraries (I have been using uClibc.)

For your project, you mention Java. I would imagine that Java may require glibc rather than uClibc.

Also, I would recommend Karim Yaghamour's book, building embedded Linux systems.

HTH

Paul.

Reply to
Paul Taylor

....

well gave it a shot. ran it as directed in readme. got about 10 mins. into build and exited, complaining of my gcc.

i suppose you need a devel version of gcc or some other such nonsense. probably a good toy for developers, but probably not good for creating systems that are going to be relied on.

Reply to
Harry Slaughter

I dunno, it's the first thing I've seen that even approximates a sensible way to do this. All these crazy GUI things the big name linux companies ship are just mind bogglingly wrong. Talk about toys!

Of course, I've yet to see hands-on reviews of any of them, ptxdist included, that say anything resembling "it works". It's almost enough to make one not do cross!

--
Grant Taylor - gtaylorpicante.com - http://www.picante.com/~gtaylor/
   Linux Printing Website and HOWTO:  http://www.linuxprinting.org/
Reply to
Grant Taylor

You may want to try our ELinOS. The target configuration allows to generate consistent kernels+rootfs images based on what features you want to have supporte. j2re is not in there by default, but should be easy to add. See my signature for the URL.

Regards, Marius.

-- Marius Groeger SYSGO Real-Time Solutions AG

formatting link
Software Engineering Embedded and Real-Time Software
formatting link
mgroeger @ sysgo de Germany
formatting link

Reply to
Marius Groeger

No, not at all. Were you trying to build glibc-2.3.2? If so, you really, truly need gcc-2.3.2 or later, regardless of how you build it.

You're mistaken there. It's the first free embedded linux build system I've seen that has a chance of being a solid foundation for both uclibc and glibc based cross-compiled systems. But it is not polished yet -- so it's not ready for hypercritical users. If you fall into that category, perhaps you should download Montavista Linux, which is fairly polished.

- Dan

Reply to
Dan Kegel

ElectronDepot website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.