Mains wiring question (USA)

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Huh? Wires *must* be stapled to the center of studs when run in wall cavities. They must be stapled with 6"(?) of plastic boxes. When run across the wall they go through holes drilled in the center of the stud, which is pretty much the same thing.

No, that's for protection of the WIRE.

Nope.

Nope. NM is stapled to the studs or run in holes drilled in them. NM can be fished into wall cavities *after* the wall is finished but before the wall is finished it's stapled to the studs.

WHich is why you're not suppose to attach the wire to the studs of the wall, but lay them between. Most people hanging pictures and the like love to find the stud and drive a nail into it. if you're using the stud to attach the wire or straps for the conduit, this means they're in close proximity of the nail coming through and the person should miss the stud or go side ways into it.

of course, open structures line barns and such normally do require pipe of some kind if its reachable, for protection of the occupant and you can then use the studs, beams etc.. How ever, if that structure ever becomes a sight where walls are to be installed, then, The way I understand it, these stud/beam mounted electricals are to be moved so that any nailing into the stud via the wall will not hit a wire..

Which is why most new houses have the romex hanging between the studs. Oh, who reads code any way, I'm sure towns/cities have their own additional codes they must go by, I know that is how it's down here..

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Really,.. I have a state inspector friend I should have log in here., What he tells me and shows me from the book and local codes, is totally different what what I've seen here, when it comes to house residential wiring and industrial installations.

I think he'd like showing you some code books. He also does adult refresher courses and he tells me that it's hard to believe the number of those that have been in the business for years having a miss conception of what they think should be done..

He used to be part of the NEC group committee but since he has retired from tech school teaching he has pulled out of that.

Have fun with your many wonders..

I'll get off this soap wagon now because I know where it's leading.

Too many bone headed people here..

I'll stick with the NEC and local codes for now.. Thank you very much..

I think you will find what he stated was correct. In Canada the code states more like 1.5" back from the wall surface. On a 2x4 wall that means in the centre. In the USA that means in the center.

Cable must be fastened (not sure of exact wording in code) within 6" of any box. That gives strain relief to the wire connections and stops wire flop from getting caught in the drywall and picture nails.

Yes, there are many bone headed people here, as in all Usenet groups. The flaw comes and goes with most people. Take each post for what it is worth to you.

I think he'd like showing you some code books. He also does adult refresher courses and he tells me that it's hard to believe the number of those that have been in the business for years having a miss conception of what they think should be done..

He used to be part of the NEC group committee but since he has retired from tech school teaching he has pulled out of that.

Have fun with your many wonders..

I'll get off this soap wagon now because I know where it's leading.

Too many bone headed people here..

I'll stick with the NEC and local codes for now.. Thank you very much..

Not according to 2008 NEC (NFPA 70). I refer you to 334.17, Through or Parallel to Framing Members, which directs you to 300.4.

300.4(A)(1): "In both exposed and concealed locations, where a cable- or raceway-type wiring method is installed through bored holes in joists, rafters, or wood members [studs in residential structures are typically wood, yes?], holes shall be bored so that the edge of the hole is not less than 32 mm (1-1/4 in.) from the nearest edge of the wood member. Where this distance cannot be maintained,the cable or raceway shall be protected from penetration by screws or nails by a steel plate(s) or bushing(s), at least 1.6 mm (1/16 in.) thick, and of appropriate length and width installed to cover the area of the wiring."

Exception 1 states that guard plates shall not be required to protect RMC, IMC, RNC [!!! [1]], or EMT.

Correct. 300.4(D). Same requirements as for holes: 1-1/4 in. from edge or protected by 1/16 in. steel plate. Exception 1 allows the guard plate to be omitted for RMC, IMC, RNC [!!! again [1]], and EMT.

334.30: No greater than 4-1/2 ft. and within 12 in. of every outlet box, J-box, cabinet, or fitting.

Correct.

Yep. Always practice safe wiring. And NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER use *GREEN* wire nuts on *ANYTHING* but EGCs. Not even temporary wiring, no matter if it's 50 ft. off the floor or not. (I know a *licensed master electrician* who does, just because he ran out of yellows or reds and can't be bothered to go get more off the truck that's 15 ft. way.)

Wrong. 300.4(D) and 334.30.

Correct. 334.30(B)(1).

I'm glad I don't live in your state. Scary, your state inspector in regards to wiring methods.

Can't say about your local codes, but I *do* know what the 2008 NEC states, because I have it in my lap as I type this, and quoted from it as I did above.

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Thomas

WHOOPS! Left out my footnote:

[1] RNC is soft in comparison to RMC, IMC, and EMT. I can, and have, driven a nail, with moderate effort, through RNC with a 16 oz. hammer. And RNC is going to protect wires or cable from a nail or screw???

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Thomas

It's no surprise that your imaginary friend agrees with you. You been waving your invisible friend for a long time. Every time you try to justify your errors. Then you blame every screwup on outside contractors.

Talk about an oxymoron...

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Why don't you bring your "state inspector friend" around so he can show us how wrong you are?

This sounds like fun, but of course you're talking through your ass, as always.

Your typical bullshit.

Yes, sometimes I wonder how someone can be as stupid as you and still manage to breathe.

To you being shown for the fool you are, as usual. That's what you risk every time you open your mouth, Jamie.

All of them wrong except you, right Jamie?

FOS, as always.

From the 2008 edition of the NEC:

300.4 Protection Against Physical Damage ...

(A) Cables and Raceways Through Wood Members.

(1) Bored Holes. In both exposed and concealed locations, where a cable- or raceway-type wiring method is installed through bored holes in joists, rafters, or wood members, holes shall be bored so that the edge of the hole is not less than 32 mm (1¼ in.) from the nearest edge of the wood member. Where this distance cannot be maintained, the cable or raceway shall be protected from penetration by screws or nails by a steel plate(s) or bushing(s), at least 1.6 mm (1/16 in.) thick, and of appropriate length and width installed to cover the area of the wiring.

Exception No. 1: Steel plates shall not be required to protect rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, rigid non-metallic conduit, or electrical metallic tubing.

Exception No. 2: A listed and marked steel plate less than 1.6 mm (1/16 in.) thick that provides equal or better protection against nail or screw penetration shall be permitted.

There is no provision to exempt type AC cable ("bx") from the nail-plate protection requirements.

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It is a foam roof now, but what might it be in the future? Perhaps the inspector (and the local code) is looking out for the next guy who owns the property?

Why not just use outdoor RIGID conduit? Is there a huge difference is price? More than a couple hundred?? At least that way, if you ever had to replace or up-size those conductors, you could just pull it. Or course, I don't know if rigit conduit surrounded by foam would have any thermal or other deleterious effects on the foam. I somewhat doubt it. But worth checking if you go that route.

-mpm

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YES THE USE OF CONDUIT HAS ADVANTAGES THE PROJECT SOUNDS LIKE IT SHOULD USE EVERY ELECTRICAL ADVANTAGE THEY MAY NEED TO ADD A FEATURE OR UPGRADE IN THE FUTURE AS WELL

BX COVERED ON A FOAM ROOF IS NOT THAT BAD BUT IT IS STILL VULNERABLE TO SCREW AND NAILGUN DAMAGE IF CAUTION IS NOT EXERCISED A PROPER WIRING / CIRCUIT LAY OUT DIAGRAM SHOULD BE DRAWN OUT KEPT AND FILED

IAP

Not here. The plastic is double the cost of EMT. They figure the ease of installation makes it worth more.

mike

Wow. Foam roof and EMT vs romex, i would take a really serious look at EMT (and perhaps simple conductors instead of romex).

If the romex is already in, just add the "shields" using raceway components.

EMT may not be considered mechanical protection as Rigid PVC is in your location or codebook. EMT and any form of rigid conduit are not interchangeable.

bud-- wrote:

Rigid PVC would be cheaper than EMT.

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PROBABLY SOME PRE-FABRICATED DISPOSABLE BUILDING

IAP

Actually, thinking about what he is doing, i would be real tempted to go with something solider, like rigid, instead of EMT...

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EMT _is_ rigid: "Electric Metallic Tubing."

Google is your friend.

Rigid Metallic Tubing is different from EMT. Rigid is threaded and heavier.

tm

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