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-- Brian Hance

---------------------------------------------------------------------- "Constantly talking is not necessarily communication." from ETERNAL SUNSHINE OF THE SPOTLESS MIND

After hearing this news (when it first broke), I was able to sum up my feelings about the entire election in four simple words.

God help us all.

Obviously She Did!

No way comrade. Communism does not work. Even the chinese are going capitalist. If everyone depended on dumb asses like you to make us rich we'd all be living in mud huts and starving to death.

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--------------------- Ah, the anonymous liar errs again.

Communism has NEVER EVER been tried, it was subverted at birth in the USSR and a feudal nobility called the Politburo used the Russian economy strictly to enrich themselves as a rich class for 70 years, enslaving their majority and trying to convince them they were in a "worker's paradise", why they were all "equal" weren't they? EQUALLY POOR BECAUSE THEY WERE BEING ENSLAVED AND STOLEN FROM! Same with China, the technical class that served the Emperor took over and ran it for their own aggrandizement!!! When you allege that some "communism" "failed", you have to let us follow the MONEY to see what REALLY happened!

Wherever a rich class EXISTS, it is automatically *NOT* ANY KIND of "communism". THAT'S HOW YOU CAN TELL! Any REAL Communism would make all disparity in wealth by profit, speculation and salary absolutely illegal.

---------------------- No, China is doing whatever they think will make their rich class richer! They use "communism" as an excuse to control the economy and all business to optimize profit for the rich, while with the other hand, they claim they are becoming more "capitalistic", but for the same purpose!! When we get rid of the rich, the lies will STOP FINALLY!

------------------------ Anyone who depends on others to make them rich deserves mud huts in the case of stupid poor people, and a noose in the case of the vicious rich s*it.

-Steve

I see you've engaged the impenetrable Walz.

;^j Rich

----------------------------- Often successful production is started by family workers and people who profited little from it out of conscience, and then it was absconded with at their death by the unscupulous rich! Few family farms became corporate ag combines with their original ownerships.

Most major coporate farmers in California's central valley are merely rich land speculators who bought them under-rated from downtrodden areas and failed rural savings and loans in bad years.

------------------------------ "Communes" weren't FOR that, numb-nuts.

And NONSENSE, many agencies and most public utilities are publically owned and NON-PROFIT!!!

-Steve

Do you have a little shrine containing a bust of Lenin in your house?

I just love it when you use words like "often" without supporting statistics. Yes, I've done my own research, and the numbers don't bear your claims out.

Small family-owned farms are one of the original "small business" enterprises that used to be the real economic backbone of this country, not the profligate "robber-barons" you vent so much of your spleen on. The latter speculated on the output of the former, without whom they'd have had to go into coal, lumber, or other speculation.

As the output of the farms became larger than local markets could handle, the "robber barons" got rich by finding larger markets. Without that effort, the small farmers couldn't have passed on their farms to latter generations because prices would have kept dropping. That's also how America got into the subtly destructive habit of feeding the world rather than teaching it how to feed itself. If that had happened (exporting knowledge instead of its fruits), we wouldn't see the wage and other general economic disparties between America and the rest of the world. There wouldn't be slave-wage sweatshops anywhere because the populations would be used to eating better and living better than they have for nearly three hundred years.

And farm ownership clearly passed into conglomeration because of the short-term economic thinking we go into below.

Yup, because shipping food "long distances" (say, across county lines) worked better, according to short-term economic thinking, than carrying farmers' loans during those bad years. That's how family farms got swept into agribusinesses.

Well then, what _were_ they for? Why couldn't they even feed themselves? Because they refused to recognize the _real_ economic climate they existed within, that's why. If they had, they'd have out-competed the "big boys" to scale by meeting the specialized market demands the big boys can't.

Today you'd be buying "organic" vegetables etc at competitive prices from large communes instead of from "boutique" producers at ridiculously inflated prices.

Solely because they are legislatively required to be non-profit. They also cannot run at breakeven.

But the financial profitability of communes, public utilities, or any other group enterprise isn't really the issue here; self-sustainability is, and that requires a slightly greater output than input to make up for entropy. But you don't get that without motivation, and threatening the workers with death by torture for not meeting quotas won't make it happen.

The proper application of the principle of "production amplification" will, and does. The _improper_ application of that principle is what dehumanizes these enterprises, and puts ex-farmers into poorhouses.

Mark L. Fergerson

Steve's not impenetrable; he just has areas of greater "density" on certain subjects, like all of us.

Mark L. Fergerson

"Content determines credibility"????!?!?!!???

"Oh, yeah, that sounds like something I already know - must be true!"

Sigh.

------------------------- People believe content that is believable. Further, they agree with what they believe when they hear it. Tell them what they know and they'll know you're right. Do it in a new way that makes them take a new side, and they'll change sides.

-Steve