Bisphenol A in electronics?

Anyone know anything about this next hazard , wrt electronics handling, heating etc, where exactly is it found ?

Firstly the "bis" of bisphenol - is it pronounced as the "bis" in bistable or "bis" in biscuit ?

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Packaging chemical linked to greater risk of diseases Some of the products which might contain bisphenol A include:

· Hard clear plastic - and sometimes tinted - water bottles. · Hard clear plastic baby feeding bottles. · Hard plastic baby toys. · Food storage containers, plastic bowls and tableware. · Cans of baked beans, soup, vegetables, fizzy drinks, etc. · Dental sealant to prevent cavities. · Electronic equipment. · Spray-on flame retardants.

· Calls for 'aggressive action' to limit use of bisphenol A · Further research needed to confirm findings

  • Sarah Boseley, health editor * The Guardian, * Wednesday September 17 2008

Tougher restrictions on the use of a chemical used to line food and drink cans and found in baby bottles and other plastic containers will be demanded today, following publication of research linking it to increased risk of heart disease, diabetes and liver abnormalities in adults.

Environmental campaigners have long worried over the ubiquitous presence of bisphenol A, which 90% of people have at low levels in their bodies. Evidence from animal studies shows it is an endocrine disrupter, which can mimic the naturally occurring hormone oestrogen. Critics say it could potentially interfere with the development of a foetus.

Until now, there has been more speculation than evidence about its effects on humans. Today, however, research by scientists at Exeter University, published in the Journal of the American Medical Association (Jama), finds that adults with higher levels of bisphenol A in their bodies have higher rates of certain diseases.

The study will step up pressure on regulatory bodies to control use of the chemical. Two leading US scientists are calling in the same issue of Jama for "aggressive action" to limit human exposure, and accuse drug regulators in the US and Europe of turning a blind eye to warning signs in animal studies. The results of the trial will today be put before a committee of the US regulator, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), which is considering what action, if any, needs to be taken. Scientist Iain Lang says problems arise from long-term exposure to chemical used in drinks cans Link to this audio

The research was based on data from the US, collected from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey, 2003-04, which included 1,455 adults over 18 and under 74. The concentration of bisphenol A in the body was measured through a urine sample.

The scientists found that people with cardiovascular disease and diabetes had higher concentrations of bisphenol A in their urine, even when age and sex was taken into consideration. Those with the highest concentrations of the chemical in their bodies had nearly three times the likelihood of heart disease of those with the least bisphenol A in their urine, and 2.4 times the diabetes risk. People with high levels of the chemical also had a higher chance of abnormal levels of three liver enzymes.

The scientists say their study shows a relationship, but does not prove that bisphenol A (BPA) is responsible for the higher disease levels. They are calling for more studies to be done to confirm what they have found.

Iain Lang, of the epidemiology and public health group of Exeter's Peninsula medical school, said the study was not a reason for people to stop buying canned food or plastic bottles. "I'm not changing my behaviour on the basis of this single study," he said.

Unhealthy habits, such as eating the wrong foods, smoking, drinking to excess and lack of exercise were the main causes of heart disease, he said. However, regulators will want to reassure themselves that there is no problem and the FDA and European regulators will be under pressure to act. In an editorial in the journal, Frederick vom Saal, from the University of Missouri, Columbia, and John Peterson Myers of Environmental Health Sciences, Charlottesville, Virginia, say the regulators should "follow the recent action taken by Canadian regulatory agencies, which have declared BPA a 'toxic chemical' requiring aggressive action to limit human and environmental exposures".

Until now, they say, the FDA and the European Food Safety Authority have chosen to ignore warnings in spite of "overwhelming evidence of harm from animal studies". A contributory factor may be "an aggressive disinformation campaign using techniques first developed by the lead, vinyl and tobacco industries to challenge the reliability of findings published by independent scientists".

David Coggon, professor of occupational and environmental medicine at the University of Southampton, said if the findings were corroborated, there would need to be more controls on exposure to the chemical. "If low-level BPA were confirmed to cause disease, there would be a need to review controls on sources of exposure to the chemical."

Professor Richard Sharpe, of the Medical Research Council human reproductive sciences unit at Edinburgh University, said it was important to exclude possible alternative causes of the raised heart disease and diabetes levels.

"If you drink lots of high-sugar canned drinks you will over time increase your risk of cardiovascular diseases and diabetes ... incidentally you will be exposed to more bisphenol A [from the can lining] ... it is obviously a priority that we design studies to provide this information before we label bisphenol A as the prime suspect," he said. At a glance

Bisphenol A is mainly used to make a clear plastic polycarbonate which will withstand high temperatures, and epoxy resins to line the insides of tin and aluminium cans to prevent corrosion from the food and drinks they contain.

-- Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on

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Reply to
N Cook
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I'll tell you what - I am absolutely pissed off with some new study every week telling us that something which we have used or eaten without issue for decades - if not centuries - is now considered "dangerous" or a "threat to health".

Not so long back, we all ate butter and cooked with lard. We used to eat bread and dripping on doorsteps of white bread. We poured salt on our food like it was going out of fashion, and we put four spoons of sugar in our mug of tea. Bread and jars of jam and everything else used to last for weeks because they had preservatives in them. And we were all a lot fitter than we are now.

Apart from the sugar, my dear old mum at 86 still does all of these things, and is fit enough to catch a bus into town every day come wind rain and shine, to do her shopping. All of the half-educated nerds with post grad degrees being paid tax-payer's money to come up with this ill-informed statistical manipulation crap, need to get out more and get a life, instead of wasting my money to tell me that some new chemical or drug or aspect of my lifestyle, is gonna kill me a few hours sooner than if I lived like a hermit surviving on rice tea and unrefined wheat biscuits baked with pure mountain spring water.

I really wouldn't worry about this stuff being in electronics, still less how to pronounce it. It's hard enough struggling a living out of this business, and figuring out whether to buy petrol, gas or electricity this week as it is, without worrying about the latest safety fad. Just look what the 'worries' about lead in solder have done for us all ...

Arfa

Reply to
Arfa Daily

for

mug

we

things,

instead

what

so pronounced bhaaaahsphenol

-- Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on

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Reply to
N Cook

bis-phen-ol

Io answer your (other) first question it's a plasticiser it's found in thermo-softening plastic parts in trace amounts, the insulation on wiring, relay cases, enclosures, plugs, membranes, packing materials, that sort of stuff.

Bye. Jasen

Reply to
Jasen Betts

And, if you wish to be complete, the average life expectancy in 1900 was around 49 years.

We have a lot of people in this community that _continue_ to eat as you describe, and the obit columns list their dates of birth in the 1960's and 1950's.

I agree there is more hysteria than reason in all this.

Jonesy

Reply to
Allodoxaphobia

Butter is a very good natural food. If you eat those hydrogenated products, they are not natural and do as much harm. I never like too much salt. Never liked sugar in tea or coffee. My jellys last a long time. I really like hot pepper. Talk about cholesterol, thats mostly hereditary.

New medical procedures, that whats improving life spanat at humongous costs. Its going to get a LOT worse.

greg

Reply to
GregS

Very different if you take away death in very early years due to childhood illnesses, etc. And is that figure just for natural deaths?

--
*The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
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Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

That's an interesting question. I wonder if the life expectancy figures accounted for childhood death, or if they only include those who survive into adulthood. My paternal grandfather's family tree consisted of nine individuals, two of whom died before one year of age (at the turn of the

19th century). Most if the other seven lived into fairly old age, although a couple died in their middle years. I wonder how that would affect 'official' estimates of average life expectancy...if applied only to that generation of my family.

jak

Reply to
jakdedert

Roughly the same with my family in a different part of the world - if you survived childhood you'd have a life expectancy not so different to today. The biggest improvment in life expectancy came from better sanitation - and that was in place by the 1900. And smoking cigarettes wasn't the norm then - that came a few years later.

--
*Reality is a crutch for people who can't handle drugs.

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
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Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

What I find amazing is all the 'Christian Science' followers... They die at the same 1900's rates, and yet they seem so mathematically challenged that they can't figure out what the reason is!

Had a good friend who was a Christian Scientist... His wife too. He died at 47 (heart attack, prayed for a cure up to about ten minutes before he died.) His widow died at about 53 or so. I think it was cancer, but never found out for sure. Same thing, tried the same fix that didn't work for her husband... Didn't work for her either!

Reply to
PeterD

Now this touches on the problem of using the imprecise word "average. There are three distributions that are called verages: Mean, median and mode. And then therr is skewness. Statistics 101.

There are liars, damned liars and stasticians said ????.

Charlie

Reply to
Charlie

So unless you're into chewing on cables or salvaging copper wire by burning off the insulation then probably nothing to be concerned about in "electronics"

More generally its very noticeable to me that , in comparison to when I were a kid, all around the world these days, you see water bottles hanging off the mouths of kids. Is this due to "brain gym" bollocks teaching in schools ? - I happen to know one such teacher. Or is there an addictive element to something emenating from plastics ? phthaletes/bisphenols? . I know of an industrial chemist concerned about phthalates and human contact, I'll ask him about bisphenol.

-- Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on

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Reply to
N_Cook

Better yet, see if you can find a bunch of post-grads looking for a science project ! I'm sure that they could get a government grant of my money for millions to research the tenuous connections between kids and water bottle contents addiction. Then, in 5 years' time, I'm sure that the Guardian and the Sun would be happy to run a story on their 'findings' ... d;~}

Arfa

Reply to
Arfa Daily

Polycarbonate plastic is made by reacting bis-phen-ole with phosgene. Thus bisphenole differs from a plasticizer, because bisphenole is chemically bound, whereas a plasticizer is only mixed in.

You would definitely not say that eg your CRTs casing has any properties of phogene. Neither does it have those of bisphenole. Like your tissue contains amino acids, but you would not be expected to smell of amonia.

One possibility to come into contact with bisphenole as end user would be to thermally or otherwise decompose the material in question. Another would exist if the manufacturer did not let the polycarbonate forming reaction come to completion, thus leaving unreacted monomer in the stuff, which would diffuse out over time (just like plasticizer).

Bisphenole is suspected to be a detrimental agent in the environment since long years. A sound proof has not come to my knowledge yet. But we will certainly be wise to handle all chemicals with caution which nature wouldn't know how to handle itself.

Regards, H.

Reply to
Heinz Schmitz

I am of the view that there is no such things as a harzardous substance. Substances are hazardous or not in terms of how they are used.

With respect to BPA... If there is any credible evidence that this substance isn't safe for human consumption (and there is), then it should be removed from that those come in contact with food. Period. No arguing. On the other hand, simply touching surfaces containing it doesn't seem to be harmful, because it (probably) doesn't pass through the skin, and how often do people lick their hands after touching plastic items?

A good example of a largely unjustified warning is the little tag stating that "California has determined this product contains a substance..." etc on many items. I first saw this on the cable attaching the remote control to my Sony Discman. Turns out the cable jacket contains lead acetate (I think that's the substance) used as a plasticizer. Now, lead and lead compounds are poisonous, and you certainly don't want to be getting them in your system. But an adult's contact with this cable is rare and brief -- and (as before), people generally don't lick their hands afterwards. On the other hand, children do put toys in their mouths.

So I don't fully agree with Arfa on this. Government has an obligation to keep hazardous materials away from people -- but there has to be some common sense about it. It's easier to write a blanket ban when it's not absolutely necessary.

Reply to
William Sommerwerck

Unfortunately for us William, we in the UK are now 'ruled' by a huge bureacratic machine called the European Union. It is full of committees having oodles of my cash thrown at them to research everything from the harmful effects of Guinness bubbles going up your nose, to contracting breast cancer from listening to too much night-time radio. And then legislating on it in a way that bypasses my own country's government such that a law banning use of whatever they have today decided is "harmful", just gets 'nodded through' onto the statute books. I don't have a problem with a government having a responsibility of protection to the populace it governs, but honestly, some of the crap we get foisted on us now in the name of environmental / personal safety, is nonsense bordering on the ludicrous.

From what I have seen of the situation in the U.S. on my visits, we have it ten times worse here. Every single day you can read in one newspaper or another, how something that we have used or consumed without problem for decades, is suddenly more dangerous to your health than stepping off a platform into the path of a train. It is this constant and relentless advise to stop doing this or eating or drinking that if you want to avoid dying horribly or contracting cancer, and the incessant glee with which the daily rags and news broadcasters run these half-baked stories, which is totally doing my crust in. The real shame of it is that the standard of education in this country has now dropped to such a sadly low level, that people will believe without question, any rubbish told to them through newspapers (those who can actually read, that is) or on the TV, for those who can't.

Arfa

Reply to
Arfa Daily

Can you name some of it which is fact rather than press speculation? The press are great at horror stories about what is 'proposed', but the vast majority of that is either just plain lies or taken out of context.

--
*I went to school to become a wit, only got halfway through.

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

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