Orcad vs. Open Source

By FreePCB are you referring to the "PCB" program from the geda suite?

I am currently working on a hobby project and I am using that opportunity to get acquainted with gschem and pcb. I thought about using kicad for both functions (schematic capture and layout) but gschem and pcb were lighter (memory foot print wize) and I had some experience using pcb for earlier projects

Thats what I love about the open source tools - the outputs are ascii files you can edit and process. Hell, I can print it out and save it as a check against losing the file on the harddrive

No, FreePCB is available at freepcb.com. It is open source, but it is only available for Windows. I don't have any prior experience with PCB layout to speak of, but I found this tool to be incredibly easy to learn and use. The only real complaint I have about it is that I don't like the way that routing between a pad and an existing trace is handled. But even that is getting to be not such an issue as I get more and more used to it.

I think the thing that impresses me most about FreePCB is how light and quick it feels. So many apps under Windows are heavy, bulky things that get in the way as much as help your work. But this program feels as quick and snappy as the DOS apps I used to run on a

286. Computers sure have slowed down a lot in the last 15 years!

My stuff is not hobby, that's why I am a bit timid about jumping in with both feet. But lots of people are using the open source tools now and I expect they will just get better and better. It is amazing how the total lack of a marketing influence improves a product.

I looked briefly at TinyCAD for schematic capture, but I couldn't even add a title block or control the page size the way I wanted. But a lot of people seem to like it so I will be taking another look at it.

The other program I will be considering for schematic capture is kicad. It is available for Windows as well as GNU, so no limitations there.

Yep, I am going to use all open source tools on my next board design.

Try outputting a netlist using the human-readable wirelist dll. Try deleting all the wires and replacing them. Is it power or a signal line?

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

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You are not alone with these kind of Orcad problems. I know other users with the same problems.

You can try Eagle

No, it's not open source, but the entry version (160x100mm, 2 layers) is free. It has got schematics, layout and autorouter, and I've never come across a crash in the last 10 years. I know it since 1992. Its fairly easy to learn.

The file formats are closes as well, but you can access the internal databases via scripting, so you always have ways to import/export readable ascii.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Frank-Christian Krügel

I wouldnt use open source or free software.

I prefer to buy something and have a vendor to shout at if there is a problem. Given some vendors sell their software very cheaply it is better to go the vendor route.

If shouting makes you feel good, you can go outside and shout at a tree. You'll get pretty much the same result as you will shouting at most vendors.

OTOH, if you want bugs fixed promptly, open-source is the way to go.

I've always had far better results getting bugs fixed and features added with open source than I ever did with "commercially supported" products from vendors.

--
Grant

:

th

,

Thanks for the suggestions. I have looked at Eagle. I did not find it to be intuitive at all. I learned how to use it when I did a very small design a while back. The learning curve was a bit steep, but once you were up on it the tool was facile. But I wanted to use it again about six months later and found I had to ramp up the learning curve again. I think the user interface is a holdover from the DOS days. FreePCB is a great tool, even if it has a few bugs, like I said, I have not lost a single byte of data and it has not been an impediment. In fact, with only one or two minor personal preferences, I think the user interface is about perfect. I wish my other programs work as well.

Your comments are interesting. I prefer to use a tool where I can get support without yelling. I have never used a commercial tool that had support anywhere near as good as what I get with FreePCB. As to the quality of commercial tools, well, I think that was the point of my original post. I think FreePCB is much higher quality than Orcad. I only hope I can find an open source schematic capture program that is as good as FreePCB.

You might already be using one:

$0$16881$ snipped-for-privacy@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at

LTSpice as a complement, to check out what happens in a really good

If I export a parts list from LTSpice in Pads2000 Format into FreePCB as suggested above, is it possible to back annotate the schematic?

Many designs have R1 next to R2, etc. on the schematic, making it easy to find R2 on the schematic but hard(er) to find R1 on the board. I like to put R1 next to R2 on the board, making it easy to find R2 on the board but hard(er) to find R1 on the schematic.

In production, a technician is far more likely to start with R2 on the schematic and then look for R2 on the board to hook up a meter or scope probe than he is to start with R2 on the board and then look for R2 on the schematic. He usually only does the latter when he starts with a burnt component.

An assembler starts with a parts list instead of a schematic, and then looks for the parts on the board, so once again having R1 next to R2 on the board is better.

It's more work for the engineer, but it is work that is done once, with the benefit to production happening again and again as long as they make that board.

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Le Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:03:24 -0700, Marra a écrit:

Believe it (or not) paying for support did not allows you to shout.

--
HBV

Agreed.

By definition, the good stuff can't be free. Although the expensive stuff can be bad, too. ORCAD is one of the worst packages, being both expensive and very inconvenient.

VLV

Guy Mac>If I export a parts list from LTSpice in Pads2000 Format

When I read "FreePCB" in this thread, *Back-Annotation* was the first thing that came to my mind with this piecemeal approach.

In a similar vein to FreePCB's author, Allan Wright, describing making DIY netlists from e.g. a hand-drawn schematic,

*.*.*.under.Linux.*.using.Wine+Importing.Netlist.Files.into.FreePCB+1A+A1A+Microsoft.Windows+netlist.file+*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.will.have.*.make.the.netlist-*-*-*.*+schematic.editor+*.*.*.tedious+Allan.Wright+*.Macintosh-*-*-*-*-*-*+*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*.*.recognized.by.FreePCB this can quickly lose its appeal.

Alas, it appears that Kicad can't back annotate either. It does get new features added on a regular basis, so perhaps a future version will do back annotation.

Here are some references to these programs:

LTSpice:

FreePCB & FreeRouting:

Using LTSpice as schematic capture for FreePCB:

KiCad EDA (Electronic Design Automation):

Also see:

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misc.business.product-dev: a Usenet newsgroup 
about the Business of Product Development.
     -- Guy Macon

*.*.*.under.Linux.*.using.Wine+Importing.Netlist.Files.into.FreePCB+1A+A1A+Microsoft.Windows+netlist.file+*.*.*.*.*

How well does FreeRouting work, compared to other autorouters? Do you know if it works well with tighter cards (multiple layers, bgas, different rules for different nets or different layers)?

"By definition" ?? Whose definition would that be? It is certainly the case that the most advanced EDA tools (as with other specialised niches) are commercial closed source, and that FOS has a fairly small share of the professional users market at the moment, but you are living with your head in the sand if you think that "good stuff can't be free" in general.

For professional use, you want the most efficient tool balancing cost price, running costs (including support), time, training requirements, compatibility issues, future availability, and other such practical considerations. And if you find that the free software does the best job in this balancing act, then only a fool would pay for the commercial software.

You should be able to export a Searcable PDF (Sch or Overlay) in either case, and use that ? (depends on the CAD pgm, but most that use TT fonts can export PDFs fine ) Also, with tight SMD designs, there often is not room to put R1,R2 etc on an overaly anymore.

-jg

Le Sat, 15 Mar 2008 13:00:44 -0500, Vladimir Vassilevsky a écrit:

What do you say about these software then?

- Linux kernel

- gcc

- PostGresql

- Mozilla

... etc.

there are all (well mostly) free as in freedom. Maybe you consider that they do not fall into your "good stuff" category, in which case i agree 'cause they are simply outstanding.

--
HBV

Kinda working pile of nonsense. Used of desperation.

Pathetic. No comparison to the commertial packages.

No idea.

Salvage at the ruins of NetScape. Who needs it anyway.

=2E..etc.

Get realistic. There is some difference between the amateurish stuff for =

the idle time and the real SW development.

VLV