Opinions re: MCU vendors

They are, no question.

Different strokes, I suppose.

I consider their business model to _be_ substance. And their micros are good besides -- ignoring the instruction set, of course. I think the _only_ complaint I've heard about them here is the instruction set. I'd add that their older compiler tools are problematic and not as good as they should have been, but I don't want to undermine my own points. ;)

All in the eye. The 80386 target (short-stepped with the

80286, and not so well) was actually drawn out of considering the old 1960's Multix project. Quite a tour-de-force. So much so, in fact, that no one could consider building the thing in a practical way until much, much later. But the ideas are sweeping, from a theoretical perspective. I'm amazed they tried to bite it off, frankly.

The world of software wasn't in any way ready for it and the bridging through a DOS world was a bit of a disaster, too. Windows was useless until it got to the Win386 edition and even then wasn't all that good -- many reasons. And we all suffered from poor implementation on top.

Yeah. I liked the 68HC11 and used a few. (Loved the 88k. But that's a different world.) I liked the TMS9900 instruction set, too. Motorola was expensive for me at the time and they also set up some highish barriers, in various ways including toolset costs and parts costs, so they didn't get used as much as they might have. One instrument, only.

Well, I'm very glad for the variety. There is no "one size fits all" as your own testimony shows. And it is very good to have multi-players out there so that each of us can find a better fit to our circumstances.

Jon

I have been creating/supporting my own toolchain because back then buying one was simply out of question. While it has been a huge effort over the years, it was also rewarding and I am glad I went this way. BTW, I am still independent when it comes to toolchains (with the obvious variety limitation, I support power, 68k, 68xx, TI 54xx and that's about all).

No doubt I am glad about the variety, too. Let's just hope we have it for another while (while we last at least :-) ).

Dimiter

When it comes to Microchip PIC lines. The experience I had with them wasn't very satisfactory. One part was one of their PIC32 parts. 2-3 years after a part was released and 5 or 6 revisions later, it still didn't meet anywhere near the specs published for the internals A-D converters , yet they were still advertised with the bogus specs.

I've had other problems with other parts of theirs as well. Furthermore whilst they do fix some bugs , they keep producing the buggy versions and shipping them years after they've fixed them so it's pot luck whether you get the good or bad versions.

I've got a few simple requirements of a vendor. I want them to meet their own commitments and that includes supplying a quality product and not an inferior version years after they've fixed some bugs in the good version. If they make a mistake it should be on their dime and not on mine. If they won't put it on their dimes voluntarily then I won't give them my dimes.

I've never used the PIC32, so that may explain some of our different experiences.

Sounds bad.

So far, my experience has been positive in that regard. But I accept your experiences, too.

I still haven't found an alternative nearly as consistent in their support of old tools and cpus. I'm very interested in hearing about other companies, where there is a few decades' experience behind it, that do anywhere near as well. I'd like to have some good alternatives.

Jon

But, very often, that small fish that was snubbed by the vendor yesterday will work for a huge fish tomorrow, and he will remember the snub.

This happens a lot - a LOT! I've seen it four times in my career.

We hired a new VP of Engineering that used to work for a small company that got screwed royally, then ignored by a MCU vendor. He now works for us, and we are massive numbers out the door each year.

That same MCU vendor kissed our VP's ass and the vendor is frantically parachuting high-level executives into our office. But the new VP is determined to remove all that vendor's MCUs from all our designs.

TI, Freescale, and Zilog don't understand that this can happen. Microchip does.

work for

got screwed

numbers

parachuting

all that

Motorola understood -- they were very nice to me when I was a grad student looking for qty 1 parts, and when I was a fresh engineer looking for 100 or so of a part that was on allocation to Ford*.

But when they turned into FreeFall Semiconductor, they lost that.

• I will cherish that conversation forever:

"I need these parts, I designed them in, trusting you to come through, and now my Whole Company Will Die if you don't sell me some!"

"I sympathize with your plight, sir, but Ford needs 10000 of those next month, and we just don't have enough for them, even -- and they're FORD!"

"10000?!? I just need 100 for a whole YEAR! (snivel, snivel)"

"Oh, 100? They'll never notice (ticki ticki tap) -- there you are, 100 on the way!".

They turned from my Favorite Semiconductor Company to my Very Favorite Ever Semiconductor Company that day -- then they went and spun the whole division off...

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

will work

got

are

parachuting

all

does.

looking for

that was

my

and we

way!".

off...

Very nice... I like that.

When Motorola became FreeFall (Freescale), their top management has been constantly locked in petty and vicious backstabbing office politics that has had a horrible effect on new product development and killed morale.

Well-said!

Tim,

During, the Motorola shortage I was presenter at a motorola retreat on new products. Over drinks late one afternoon I was talking to a Mot VP who explained that when a automotive VP calls you in and takes you to the window of his office and points to a parking lot filled with new cars as far as the eye can see and explains that just one mot part is needed so they can be shipped.

Now says he, "That's pressure!"

I agree mot used to be very good. I could always get a few parts for my customers with a phone call.

Walter Banks Byte Craft Limited

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Besides an occasional helping hand, Moto puts out parts that have amazing longevity. I'm still writing code and building boards for 68332 systems. That part was mature when I started my business 12 years ago. Other chips and other projects have made me more money, but the 68332 systems have always sold enough boards to pay the rent and utiliities.

I suppose there are people with similar experiences with PIC chips. In another 5 years there may be people who can tell the same story about ARM chips.

Mark Borgerson

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100 e

ole

I JUST got thru customizing some 80C85 boards (STD) for a customer. But it is getting difficult to support a lot of the really old stuff.

To be fair Microchip has provided very good customer support. They too have found a way to make the needs of their customers happen. In doing so they have found a business niche supporting a large number of small volume customers that some of the other semiconductor companies ignored for several years

Walter Banks Byte Craft Limited