GPS digital navigation map data

GPS navigators such as TomTom, NavMan, Garmin, Magellan etc. become increasingly popular.

Is there a common standard for the digital map data to be used on these type of small embedded devices in which optimal route calculation can be calculated?

Is it possible to access this data through some API, to use it in a PC application?

Ray

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<Ray>
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Reply to
David R Brooks

Tell that to aircraft pilots who do "trust their lives" to the accuracy of the GPS info.

Reply to
Everett M. Greene

This seems an apples to oranges comparison as I imagine the data used in personal GPS receivers is less accurate, less often updated, and no where near as trustable as that used in the GPS receivers used in aviation.

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          Michael Kesti            |  "And like, one and one don't make
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Reply to
Michael R. Kesti

Is all this a apples-oranges comparison?

Would not a pilot be interested in exact location of airports and various beacons? would there be any equivalent of uncharted shoals?

Reply to
Richard Owlett

I'm afraid you misunderstood Michael. As I read him, he stated that aviation GPS units base on much more reliable data than "personal" GPS's (though I'm not sure what this latter amounts to). So "apples" = personal GPS units' data, "oranges" = aviation GPS units' data. Confirming your idea that pilots want and generally get quite correct info from their GPS units.

As for uncharted shoals and their aviation equivalents: what about danger, restricted, and forbidden areas? In certain countries these are in almost permanent change, requiring an alert database manager and frequent updates.

For myself, I should much welcome the advent of a community driven database of pilot's navigation info, a bit like DAFIF but more up to date, that could be used by public domain GPS software. And am much willing to contribute to any such initiative within the limits of my poor abilities.

Best rgds & season's wishes, KA (student pilot)

Reply to
karel

type

calculated?

application?

I, too, think that this is the case.

I am referring to the handhelds that sell in the 100's of dollars range, such as those such as the Magellan unit I own, and for which there is no way to obtain updated data.

That is precisely what I meant and I cannot imagine that pilots trust their lives to the former. This is evidenced by the disclaimers that are displayed every time I power up my Magellan.

Correct.

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          Michael Kesti            |  "And like, one and one don't make
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Reply to
Michael R. Kesti

type

A pilot is not using a consumer-oriented GPS. He is using an aviation GPS, with a Jeppesen database of beacons, approaches, and airports, that is maintained via a monthly subscription.

--Gene

Reply to
Gene S. Berkowitz

"Gene S. Berkowitz" schreef in bericht news: snipped-for-privacy@newsgroups.comcast.net...

Is he (and/or she)? Each one? Really? Sure and guaranteed? How can you know?

On my side I HAVE seen pilots fly with "consumer-oriented" GPS-units, though not as a primary means of navigation, luckily.

And don't come and tell me about "certified" units: unless I'm much mistaken not any single GPS unit has been certified by any single European civil aviation authority.

KA

Reply to
karel

They're the ones who DON'T fly into the terrain, or stray into controlled airspace, or radio traffic control asking "Where am I?"

I didn't. Aviation units are designed to display the information of interest to pilots, and to easily integrate with the other avionics aboard the aircraft.

..but that probably has more to do with the lack of European manufacturers than any inherent problems with the devices themselves...

--Gene

Reply to
Gene S. Berkowitz

... snip ...

I seem to remember a plane crash a few years ago, attributed to failure to show a mountain on some electronic chart. I think it was in S. America.

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Reply to
Chuck F.

type

I think the relevent term is "should" be using an aviation GPS. Unfortunately as more comsumer oriented devices comes on the market, the chances of pilots using inapropriate quality GPS systems increases. This is very much equivalent in the embedded market where general prupose PC based systems are employed where they have no business of being empoyed.

Regards Anton Erasmus

Reply to
Anton Erasmus

I was flying my Twin Cessna 310 out of Pheonix at night going east. North east of Tuscon, while Flight Following, VOR, and GPS had me in a valley, I was sure I saw rocks in the sky ahead. Cross check of altimeter and GPS also showed us higher than local terain, but we could definitely see mountian peeks on each side of us, towering maybe thousands of feet higher than we were. It just didn't look like we were going to clear the next ridge ahead. No stars to the horizon there, as there were many other places around us, only blackness. So dispite assurances of all instruments and data, we advised Flight Following we were going to error on the side of caution, and climbed. They understood. Did we avoid anything? We'll never know. We lived through it, though. That was enough.

Ultimately the aircraft pilot or ships captain is responsible for the craft's and passenger's saftey. Pilots often die when they get fixated on one source of information, and ignore any data to the contrary. Nature often corrects their impression on how it "has to be" by instead being "what it actually is".

I think what has been confused in this conversation is 1) the position data from the GPS, which should be remembered is just data, one point of reference in a suite of navigation instruments, and 2) the information in the data base. Any functional GPS gives pretty good position data within the limitations of spec'd accuracy. The map is another issue entirely. Generally people don't put up new mountains to run into, but they sure do build new TV towers, etc. A pilot should have a current sectional, and be checking it for highest projections from the ground, that's makered specifically by area. The idea that your GPS database map is a substitute for a recent sectional is pretty dangerous thinking.

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Randy M. Dumse
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Reply to
Randy M. Dumse

Guess I proved how little I know ;) Thanks to all who answered.

Randy M. Dumse wrote:

Reply to
Richard Owlett

saving up my nickles and dimes to get one, been doing the research.

NO, there is no common format. Far from it.

There is the GPX format which is meant to be a common ground.

There is a program called GPSBabel which is meant to translate most manufactures to/from GPX and to each other.

AFAIK, most if not all can stream NEMA GPS data to their serial port which can be read and translated. I had an old magellen that was meant to do this, and did, however it was exceeding faulty, registering my Los Angeles home as a moving target at some 700 mph...

I have been cosnidering Trails.com as a source of hiking trails, and had hoped to join them and generate nice maps to follow. As it turns out, you can trace a map, and export a GPX format route. I D/L'd Babel and converted my route to CSV format, so it does function in that respect...

type

Reply to
blueeyedpop

Doesn't anyone sailing near the Horn without real Admiralty charts deserve what he/she gets? What little sailing experience I've had tells me yes.

Reply to
Jim Stewart

I can't speak for Magellan, but maps can be uploaded to Garmin units, and updated maps are periodically available. Firmware updates are usually free.

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Al Balmer
Sun City, AZ
Reply to
Al Balmer

When I was learning coastal navigation, about 15 years ago, my instructor was over the moon about GPS. In fairness, he didn't specifically say to dump my paper charts, but he did say to dump my sextant, & use the saved cash to buy a back-up GPS unit. I still take leave to differ with that view.

Reply to
David R Brooks

I read an article In one of the Electronic trade magazine some time ago. This article was written by an engineer who had been evaluating the GPS technology, chipsets and devices available at the time. One of his hobbies was sailing, and he took the several GPS devices along on a weekend sailing trip around some islands in the west indies. One thing he picked up was that very few of the devices gave a confidence level (Or a tolerance) on the highly precise value displayed on the device. He also said that if he had relied on the GPS devices on a particilar trip where he had a 100m wide channel to navigate, he would have ended up on the rocks. I personaly think that devices should display a precision related to the acuracy of the data. People tend to believe the numbers even if they should be ignored. If one displays a range for instance with an accuracy of +- 1m, then display say 143 m, not 143.000 m. Better would be to display 143 +-1m or (142 to 144m). On a GPS device with a map display, a circle could be displayed that indicated that one is somewhere in the circle in stead of a dot. If the minimum height intersects the ground anywhere in this region, an alarm should sound.

Regards Anton Erasmus

Reply to
Anton Erasmus

While there is nothing to prevent a pilot from taking any "NAV AID" he wants on a plane including a toy compass and a 30 year old map, there are regulations regarding NAV AIDs designed to be mounted/installed in aircraft. Any device to be used for navigation must be designed against certain standards such as RTCA DO-178B for software and then "type certified" by the FAA (US, other countries/other agencies) for use in that type of plane.

In addition, data to be used in the NAV AID is covered by RTCA standard DO-200A - Standards for Processing Aeronautical Data. All data to be used in aviation must be handled in accordance with this standard.

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Scott
Validated Software Corp.
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Not Really Me

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