Pronounced just like the sauce ;-)
And sort of like Gloucester.
Then there's Wooster, OH ;-)
...Jim Thompson
-- | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | | | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat | |
Does he slaver it with war-sester-shire saucr?
Jerry
-- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
When I went to Woopie Tech, it was "guys only". The nearest "gulls" were at some sort of prep school just down the street that ran through the center of campus.
And now I have to add my favorite rant: I hope you discussed at some length the fact that every control loop needs an auditor, a second, independent measurement device that is not involved in closing the loop. The reason for this is that once you have closed the loop, you cannot use that measurement to know anything about what's really going on in the process over the long term. If the controller is functioning properly, the measurement (at the controller) will be forced to track the setpoint no matter what is actually happening in the real world. Providing such auditors used to be standard practice in the process control industry until about 15 years ago when engineers lost control of their plants and bean counters started "cost-reducing" everything. In fact, we used to have RTDs designed with that in mind: one RTD to control and one to audit in the same probe.
Also, of course, we had the clever E&I technicians. Operators would complain that the controller measurements weren't the same as the auditor measurements, so some dork with a 12-inch screwdriver would "re-calibrate" the RTD-to-current-loop converters to make the auditors "read right."
If sensors are in the same place, they ought to read the same value. Audit probes did me the most good when they were located somewhat apart from the control probe.
Jerry
-- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
No!! Between the sensors and the computer is usually a device ("converter" or "amplifier") to produce a 4-20 mA (or
10-50 mA) signal from whatever the sensor produces (resistance, millivolts, etc.) Back in the computer room, there is often another converter to change the 4-20 mA signal to something like 0-10 Volts or 1-5 Volts. These devices almost always have "Span" and "Zero" adjustments accessible to "the dork with the 12-inch screwdriver". Consequently, without a serious threat to "break fingers", these converters are often used to make the computer say whatever the operators want it to say.
Yes, I am use LabView so I am have no problims. Evin cumputer get burn up coz ov over monkey mistak. :) :)....
Also hav 'honest' backup what no-wun am figur owt. Bonus, am also iso9005.02.03
Nise Coffeeee plus Doner Kebab...... Easy.
DNA
"Jim Thompson" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...
and Warrik (RI) ...
I used to take the New Haven... RR from Boston to DC, then switch to the C&O on into Huntington. Trying to figure out those conductor calls was quite a challenge.
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
It's what you learn, after you know it all, that counts.
Yep, monkeys with screwdrivers were a big problem in my plant (as was a raccoon who decided to have a barbecue in the business area of one of the 230 KV switching substations ;-)
Seriously though, there is a subtlety buried here that should be brought out. We didn't really become focused on the problems I described until we started using various Data Historians in a big way (actually about the same time that people were getting interesting in things like ISO-9000 and Statistical Process Control.) After a lot of thinking, a lot more talking, and several demonstrations where our historical data showed us that what was happening was not what we thought was happening, we began to get a handle on some of the problems.
I can't emphasize enough how important is the collection and long-term storage of process data to the health of a plant that has a lot of closed-loop control, but don't rely on the controller measurements to tell you anything about what's happening in the process. This principle should be pasted on every control engineer's forehead: "If a process variable is important enough that it needs to be automatically controlled it is important enough that it needs to be independently audited."
The train wicket guy in the UK who sold me the ticket to 'Lie-stir' looked at me funny, but sold the ticket to Leicester nonetheless.
Best regards, Spehro Pefhany
-- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
I disn't say they /would/ read the same, but that thay /ought/ to. When two thermometers in the same stirred pot of soup indicate different temperatures, at least one of them is wrong. Loop or no loop.
Jerry
-- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
Montreal streetcars (remember them) used to roll along St. Catherine until they arrived at "GeeGuy". Sometimes "Laroogeeguy". Those are hard 'g's.
-- "If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on "show options" at the top of the article, then click on the "Reply" at the bottom of the article headers." - Keith Thompson More details at: Also see
... snip ...
Or you have an unusually busy population of Maxwells demons.
-- "If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on "show options" at the top of the article, then click on the "Reply" at the bottom of the article headers." - Keith Thompson More details at: Also see
I cot confused in Bawston when the MTA dispatcher told me to take the Pack kah (rhymes with kaka). It took a while to sort that out.
Jerry
-- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
Hey, I'm 3 for 3. I heartily recommend doing the writing before the kids come along, or after they leave home. In the intervening
20+ years, content yourself with smaller projects and keep up with the tree planting!Mark Borgerson
I had the reverse situation occur once. I was going to fly with an instructor one night at an airport where the runway lights were out of service for construction work. The instructor said he'd put a pot at the end of the runway so we could find it to land. I was puzzled as to how a /part/ (allowing for the instructor's heavy New England accent) was going to help us find the runway. As we taxied out to depart, I saw the pot and realized that when he'd said "pot", he meant "pot"!
And there's the time the Texan was telling me how much he hated "all-filled" capacitors. [Show me a capacitor that isn't filled with something.]
Ole came home from work one day, just terribly sad. "Ole, what's wrong?" asks Lena. "Oh, Lena," says Ole, "You remember de oder night, vhen you vas on top o me, and ve vas havin such fun?" "Oh, yah, Ole, dat was great!" "Vell, Lena, ve can't do dat no more." "Huh?" "Yah, I'm so sorry, but da boss at vork today, he says, if I f*ck up vun more time, I'm fired!"
Cheers! Rich
-- Elect Me President in 2008! I will: A. Fire the IRS, and abolish the income tax B. Legalize drugs C. Stand down all military actions by the US that don't involve actual military aggression against US territory D. Declare World Peace I.
Oh, please! Do Tell!
Please don't be a tease! ;-P
Thanks! Rich
-- Elect Me President in 2008! I will: A. Fire the IRS, and abolish the income tax B. Legalize drugs C. Stand down all military actions by the US that don't involve actual military aggression against US territory D. Declare World Peace I.
Are any of the root locus solvers free? even really cheap? Not much use for one but if i go back to school i do not want have to repeat controls.
-- JosephKK Gegen dummheit kampfen die Gotter Selbst, vergebens. --Schiller
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