troubleshooting method for micro-controller board ?

In my experience of situations like this (such as regulation failure in a SMPSU) its quite common for a small number of devices - sometimes as few as

1, to go S/C and "crowbar" the rail effectively protecting the remainder of devices. Occasionally a few devices will blow O/C instantaneously after going S/C, which can lead to further problems after the S/C devices are replaced - if the Vcc bond wire to the S/C die blows, the I/P & O/P pins cn the S/C die can load the O/Ps of other chips connected to it, this can be tedious to trace on bussed logic, its possible to snip the tops of DIL chip pins to isolate the chip while leaving enough pin on the chip body to solder the pin back on to (you can always replace the chip later if you want to) with the pin isolated you can use a pulse injector and scope to find if the snipped chip or something else on the bus line is still holding it down.
Reply to
ian field
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That is the most important thing that you must do before going any further. If not properly bypassed, 78 series regulators will *readily* oscillate violently, particularly if you have long leads attached to them. Connect 0u1 between "in" and ground, and 4u7 in parallel with 0u1 between "out" and ground. It is *essential* that these are soldered *directly* to the pins of the device, not some distance away down the connecting wires.

Arfa

Reply to
Arfa Daily

Might as well add the back-bias protection diode with anode at "out" and cathode at "in" while he's at it.

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Reply to
clifto

Yeah, if you like, though probably an unnecessary complication for this test setup. Going back to the story of how this unfortunate situation arose, I think that there is a valuable lesson for Robb to add to what he's learning here, and that is "If it ain't broke, don't fix it ..." The fact that it was working after replacing the VFD driver chip, should have been an end to the job. It obviously didn't matter that the clock was a bit scruffy, as observed on the 'scope, as the item was managing to use it satisfactorily. Depending on how fast the clock is, and how good a probe was being used on the 'scope, the signal may not even have been 'wrong' in the first place. It might just have *looked* as though it was. It's pretty likely that any clock inputs on the chips are internally schmitt'd anyway, to make sure that a clean signal is being passed on into the chip's circuitry.

Arfa

Reply to
Arfa Daily

Not any more.

1.5A is the norm. Look at any up-to-date data sheet.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

I wouldn't say it was "the norm". A quick look at Farnell's catalogue shows at least as many 1 amp variations of the 7805, as 1.5 amp ones. Maplin, probably the biggest supplier in the UK to the amateur market, as well as having a professional supply division, doesn't even list any 1.5 amp versions of the standard 78xx and 79xx series devices, although they do keep a small range of 2 amp devices. I would also contend that any device older than 5 years is pretty much certain to be only 1 amp rated, and Robb's original fitted to a board from the 80s will definitely be.

Arfa

Arfa

Reply to
Arfa Daily

16

connects

Thanks to all who have helped in the past too many to name ..

seems my sacrificial chips so far were the MCU (8031) and ROM chip (TMM23256) :((((((( very sad

Synop:

-------- microcontroler board , 32v and 5v rails meet. a single snap later and she is dead.

5v rail to 0v rail shows 63 Ohms and should probably be about 400 Ohms

To diagnose using advice fom *s.e.b* removed the power regs, made a 5 Volt 1A power supply, connected to 5V and monitored current (~450 milliAmps) and monitor heat on all components

Nothing really panned out here, no heat or crazy current

So i removed the MCU (8031) and the super important ROM chip (TMM23256P) and the Ohms jumped to about ~456 Ohms and the current was down to ~ 275 milliAmps. so those must be the sacrificial chips and of course the measured Ohms of the ROM Vcc to Vgrd was 72 Ohms very sad : ..... ((

so i put the 5 volt Reg back and powered up then added fuses for the 36 volt line and no fuses blown so now i need to get a new

8031 replacement and a ROM chip and of course the ROM IMAGE :(((

Semi-Good News... i have access to a a similar main board (an upgraded one actually) but it has a 8051 MCU with on board ROM and not external ROM

so my choices now are A. get an 8051 and copy the ROM over and install maybe that will work ?

B. get a 27c256 ROM chip and a 8051/8031 with or w/o ROM then force external memory use pin to appropriate setting and copy the borrowed 8051 ROM memory onto the 27c256 ... hope that works

Any advice here and ideas are highly welcomed as i do not want to cause even more troubles

thanks to all that have helped so far, robb

Reply to
robb

I think that it would be a good idea to restart this thread at the top of the list again, as it is now a long way down. The only way that I knew that you had posted again, was that I still had a 'watch' set on, that I had forgotten to remove. Just as a matter of interest, have you actually tried sticking the ROM (I take it that it's a standard 27 series EP-ROM ?) into a PROM blower just to see what it makes of it? They usually do an evaluation of the chip first, and will put up an error message regarding what, if anything, they find wrong. 72 ohms does, I agree, seem a bit low though. Have you compared this figure to a known good chip ? Remind me again what the board is out of. Is there absolutely no possibility of finding another, even if still in service, anywhere in the world? The 'net is a very powerful tool in this regard.

Arfa

Reply to
Arfa Daily

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