They'll be a fee for the NYT again starting next year,
Maybe there could be some way to put a unique electronic "taggent" on each subscriber's download -- the poor man's version might be a strategically placed misspelling -- to determine which subscribers are violating the copyright laws.
At a minimum it might force them to at least retype the entire article.
The slow dime over the fast nickel science and technology pages that charge $20/article don't have the same IP theft problems as the "popular" press.
Some kind of cooperative effort with Google and others may be necessary to make it work.
Lots of people read the harsh totalitarian copyright warnings projected by NYT and other papers/sites and completely fail to understand the quite liberal FAIR USE EXCEPTIONS to the copyright law.
Any news story posted to usenet would be fully covered by the FAIR USE EXCEPTIONS because it is for discussion purposes and not for profit.
Perhaps the NYT should pay for their news gathering with advertising?
(note: consult a real, actual lawyer instead of the Internet for free legal advice - and if you want the good advice as opposed to the free stuff, you'll probably have to pay).
Hmm.. somehow I lost the bottom part of the post. What I was going to say was that 'fair use' is a bit more stringent than some people think. A relative of mine (who is a very good lawyer), told me that if a professor ran off a dozen copies of a textbook and handed out free copies to his class, then that would be a slam dunk felony copyright conviction for any good lawyer. When Iasked about the 'non- commercial' part, he said - what's non-commercial about selling someone a college education?
Regardless of the law it could still be at least technically possible to make subscriptions available with the stipulation that the articles not be re posted.
It may very well require a huge joint cooperative effort but it could still be worth it.
Not that _I_ would have thought of it either but it's surprising someone with 20-20 foresight -- these people exist -- didn't say, "maybe we ought to consider including an option to help protect copyrighted material. If we do it now it won't be necessary to redo everything later on . . ."
Was that a joke about NYT's issues a few years back with writers with fraudulent credentials?
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I didn't even look at those. I can tell you that legal opinions on this vary WILDLY, probably because of gutless overcaution or just plain ignorance. Get OVER your pretense that any attorney actually has a definitive answer.
You could hire 6 different attorneys and get
6 different answers. Ask them if they consulted Shepherds Digest to sheperdize the case law.
The FAIR USE exception was supposedly designed specifically so that it could NOT be obfuscated behind legal technicality or require hiring a member of the lawyers GUILD to interpret the exceptions.
kevin wrote
Then you went on to describe a copyright violation that is BLATANTLY not covered by the FAIR USE exceptions. Whole books.
kevin wrote
Whole books would be a violation on RSS or usenet as well.
FAIR USE does not exempt whole books from copyright.
NYT seems to have already tried that sort of protectionism. At that point it would become a contract violation and not a copyright violation where FAIR USE offers an exception.
You wrote that from the perspective of authors and publishers and seem to be trying to minimize the FAIR USE exceptions to copyright law.
At the same time you seem to concede the exceptions when you suggest more restrictive subscription to access content with contractual stipulation OUTSIDE of the law. (Then enforceable by terminating subscription or through tort action for contract violation but NOT for copyright law violation..)
I have posted THOUSANDS of complete news articles to usenet with links and I have never even been asked by any publisher to cease, not that I would.
I loved the part where one of you tried to instill the fear of booga booga and suggest that this simple issue needs a paid professional legal consultation.
The FAIR USE exceptions were designed specifically to NOT require the expense of an attorney to interpret.
Writers and publishers HATE the FAIR USE exceptions. Most would like to deny that they exist at all.
Do any of the stern legal warnings that publishers put at the bottom even mention FAIR USE exceptions?
Fair use permits the quoting of PART of the work for, among other reasons, discussion. It does not allow for posting of the full article.
A select number of items that really are about Gregory Scott "Piggly Wiggly" Hanson (Greg states they are as believable as the comment that water is wet):
Title: ST VS GREGORY HANSON (DOB 05/22/1959) CRIMINAL COMPLAINT 04/10/1996 Comments: CT 1 OWI 1ST OTHER CITATION 04/10/1996 Comments: CT 2 SPEED Disposition Status GUILTY PLEA/DEFAULT
"That's the chick, but not the pic, zipperhead!" Greg "Piggly Wiggly" Hanson proving his bigotry towards Asians, by attacking my first wife (deceased).
formatting link
Me: "I suspect your stalking is due to the use and abuse of illegal drugs, Greg. Is the reason for your stalking the members of alt.friends due to the use and abuse of illegal drugs?
Gregory Scott "Piggly Wiggly" Hanson, wife beater and child abuser: "Of course."
"My family's case is for Neglect, but we are treated in virtually every regard as child abusers, marked on the Child Abuse registry, for example." -- Gregory Scott "Piggly Wiggly" Hanson, wife beater and child abuser
" ... But there ought to be conferences and studies on how to curb minority overpopulation, repatriate minorities abroad, imprison more minorities, increase use of the death penalty and divest minorities of the power they have usurped over us in recent years. That would address the most pressing problems of our day. ... " April 2000, Gregory Hanson
With the Christmas season upon us again, my stepdaughter was launching into her usual tirade of "I need this" (Nintendo 64 games, Pokemon, videos, Rhianna CD, etc.) After enduring a trip through Kmart, I was at my wits end. I took the kid home and filled the bathtub with water. Then I dunked the brat's head under the water and counted out a full minute, with her flailing her arms. I brought her up and she gasped for air. When she'd caught her breath, I asked her, "When you were under that water, did you 'need' Nintendo? Pokemon? Rhianna?" She shook her head. "What were you thinking about?" I prodded. She told me "I was thinking that I needed air."
"Now you know the difference between 'need' and 'want'" I exclaimed triumphantly.
--a true story
As of Sunday, August 15, 2010:
SMALL CLAIMS ORIGINAL NOTICE Comments: OPA $2805.04 COPIES TO PA VERIFICATION OF ACCOUNT
JUDGEMENT DEFAULT Comments: JUDGMENT AGAINST GREGORY HANSON FOR $2805.04 + INTEREST AT 7.271% FROM 8/6/98 & $45.00 COSTS.
Comments: NOTE OF GARN/NOTE TO DEFT SERV 9/24/98 BY WCSD TO SYSTEMS MANAGEMENT (ED POLKERS) FOR GREG HANSON FEES $35.60
Gregory Scott "Piggly Wiggly" Hanson has a Garnishment order against him. There is nothing to even suggest any of the money legally owed has been paid. The SoL on the order has likely expired, but Greg still can't risk getting a job due to it.
How were they trying to determine which subscribers were the sources of which reposted material?
That may be difficult to enforce even if they knew and that alone may kill the idea.
Supposing hundreds or thousands of subscriber - violators started to sue in small claims court to get their subscriptions back?
Hardly. The reason for protecting the IP of writers employed by the "popular press" isn't all that lofty. It's just not very smart to have a lot of talented writers in the same economic situation as underpaid New Orleans cops.
They're going to get money from somewhere.
The real question is, if their readers aren't paying them, who is?
There may be a reason for that other than just the infeasibility of taking thousands to court. After all, they could always prosecute a few to set as examples.
The real reason is the media are mostly funded by corp. and other monied interests who exercise a whole lot more editorial control over the content of the "independent" media than what publishers would have you believe.
This "soft power" editorial control is worth a whole lot more to the monied interests than any increase in revenue Saks Fifth Avenue ever realizes from 7 day / week $80K / full page ads.
That's why they aren't going to prosecute anyone. You are just unwittingly helping them spread their propaganda around.
That's another good reason to comply with the spirit of the copyright laws.
You can repost the specific truths they do put out, omit the link if you want -- the lazy and ignorant will not google -- and then later point out how the _Times_ would have everyone believe Pat Robertson came over on the Mayflower, the top tax rate under JFK was 20% and that Revolutionary era American political engagement wasn't any more sophisticated than "taxing rum and subduing Indians."
Just read _Democracy In America_ (1833) and you'll immediately see the heavy duty historical revisionism and understand how soft power editorial control works.
BC > Regardless of the law it could still be at least BC > technically possible to make subscriptions BC > available with the stipulation that the articles BC > not be re posted.
G > At that point it would become a contract G > violation and not a copyright violation G > where FAIR USE offers an exception.
BC > That may be difficult to enforce even if BC > they knew and that alone may kill the idea.
Awww..
BC > Supposing hundreds or thousands of BC > subscriber - violators started to sue in BC > small claims court to get their BC > subscriptions back?
Would you actually PAY to subscribe to NYT online?
For the publishers, writers or readers?
You post as if it's a top priority government imperative.
Could you please diagram you logic here? It's starting to sound like you're hinting at entitlement or elevating the importance of writers to compare to law enforcement.
Or what?
Advertisers?
Are you pretending they are all biased in the same direction?
Pretzel logic.
Like Soros?
KBW > Fair use permits the quoting of PART of the KBW > work for, among other reasons, discussion. KBW > It does not allow for posting of the full article.
Please post caselaw supporting your assertions, Kent.
Interesting. Nowhere in the post to which you replied does my comments appear. Do you really think your post edits are a winning strategy?
Your tacit admission, by YOUR standards, that I was and am correct is accepted.
I've offered no such appeal. Since, as you accidentally admitted, I have no conviction for such, an appeal would be really dumb.
A select number of items that really are about Gregory Scott "Piggly Wiggly" Hanson (Greg states they are as believable as the comment that water is wet):
Title: ST VS GREGORY HANSON (DOB 05/22/1959) CRIMINAL COMPLAINT 04/10/1996 Comments: CT 1 OWI 1ST OTHER CITATION 04/10/1996 Comments: CT 2 SPEED Disposition Status GUILTY PLEA/DEFAULT
"That's the chick, but not the pic, zipperhead!" Greg "Piggly Wiggly" Hanson proving his bigotry towards Asians, by attacking my first wife (deceased).
formatting link
Me: "I suspect your stalking is due to the use and abuse of illegal drugs, Greg. Is the reason for your stalking the members of alt.friends due to the use and abuse of illegal drugs?
Gregory Scott "Piggly Wiggly" Hanson, wife beater and child abuser: "Of course."
"My family's case is for Neglect, but we are treated in virtually every regard as child abusers, marked on the Child Abuse registry, for example." -- Gregory Scott "Piggly Wiggly" Hanson, wife beater and child abuser
" ... But there ought to be conferences and studies on how to curb minority overpopulation, repatriate minorities abroad, imprison more minorities, increase use of the death penalty and divest minorities of the power they have usurped over us in recent years. That would address the most pressing problems of our day. ... " April 2000, Gregory Hanson
With the Christmas season upon us again, my stepdaughter was launching into her usual tirade of "I need this" (Nintendo 64 games, Pokemon, videos, Rhianna CD, etc.) After enduring a trip through Kmart, I was at my wits end. I took the kid home and filled the bathtub with water. Then I dunked the brat's head under the water and counted out a full minute, with her flailing her arms. I brought her up and she gasped for air. When she'd caught her breath, I asked her, "When you were under that water, did you 'need' Nintendo? Pokemon? Rhianna?" She shook her head. "What were you thinking about?" I prodded. She told me "I was thinking that I needed air."
"Now you know the difference between 'need' and 'want'" I exclaimed triumphantly.
--a true story
As of Sunday, August 15, 2010:
SMALL CLAIMS ORIGINAL NOTICE Comments: OPA $2805.04 COPIES TO PA VERIFICATION OF ACCOUNT
JUDGEMENT DEFAULT Comments: JUDGMENT AGAINST GREGORY HANSON FOR $2805.04 + INTEREST AT 7.271% FROM 8/6/98 & $45.00 COSTS.
Comments: NOTE OF GARN/NOTE TO DEFT SERV 9/24/98 BY WCSD TO SYSTEMS MANAGEMENT (ED POLKERS) FOR GREG HANSON FEES $35.60
Gregory Scott "Piggly Wiggly" Hanson has a Garnishment order against him. There is nothing to even suggest any of the money legally owed has been paid. The SoL on the order has likely expired, but Greg still can't risk getting a job due to it.
Path: g2news1.google.com!news3.google.com!feeder.news-service.com! feeder.erje.net!newsfeed.datemas.de!news.datemas.de!not-for-mail From: Kent Wills Newsgroups: misc.legal,comp.dsp,sci.electronics.basics Subject: Re: Electronic "Taggent" To Keep Subscribers From Reposting Articles Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2010 07:28:18 -0500 Organization: The Kult of Kane. You may already be a member. Lines: 123 Sender: snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com Message-ID: References: Reply-To: snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: news.datemas.de qSbE5DprhL8BmCY2Q8gmCSPMb
+IH2mk2jW0ymN5HrFovCTAtu+gackxJ+Z7Y8Pe9lpFWsXr
+sPbza5qbYTY3CWfItzZQ4jU2jZKKJmJbZIyPwPvlYZ9RbTgTs2rCYndcznYHjUweaS3vJzI/ XibBpiKB5W2p9oVzOgoWRil7Txo=3D X-Complaints-To: snipped-for-privacy@datemas.de NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2010 12:28:22 +0000 (UTC) X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 4.2/32.1118 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100917-0, 09/17/2010), Outbound message [...] KBW > Fair use permits the quoting of PART of the KBW > work for, among other reasons, discussion. KBW > It does not allow for posting of the full article. [...]
They obviously weren't influential enough to be worth the money.
The number of papers peaked out in 1913 and have decreased ever since.
The difference now is everyone is an editorialist.
Everything is subject to cost-benefit risk analysis, whether they admit it or not.
In the long run they'll lose.
As Tocqueville pointed out, "the increase of equality of conditions is, therefore, a providential fact. It has all the chief characteristic of a law of nature. It universal and enduring . . . all men and all events contribute to equality's progress."
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