However you wish to see it John, though I didn't use any cuss words.
I'd go with jumpers on a micro. They're cheap and highly configurable.
An SSR doesn't qualify as a relay?
learning
The same goes for test equipment, soldering stuff etc.... It's just one more tool that you need, nothing more. A good PIC programmer is less than $100. Compared to the $150 I spent on my audio frequency generator that I almost never use, it's a great investment.
But it would be worth buying a DMM, a soldering iron, solder, etching stuff etc.....?
like
Well, I guess that I see PIC chips like you see 74xx's
Burning yet another straw man, you really are a fire bug. I don't recall asking anyone to spend money on equipement to be used once. As I "self agrandised" before, if I was adamently suggesting a PIC to someone, I'd be offering some help to go with it. You can make of that what you wish.
more
Er um, because I don't want to. You really ought to stop trying to control things around here. Ordering people around on usenet is not likely to win you many friends.
qty),
Programmers and dev tools don't count. We've already covered this. They are in the same category as all other dev tools and electronics equipment you own.
a
It's certainly not half as expensive when you factor in a board and the rest of the common parts. The difference quickly shrinks to ~10% or less, now doesn't it? It's really not very attractive watching an engineer play games with numbers like he's doing Enron's books.
Admittedly for one off, it's pretty hard to be cheaper using an 8-bit micro. A 4-bit proc would do the job, and it would be cheaper. BTW, your quoted prices were a bit low as shown on Digikey, so things aren't as bad as you wish to make it seem. Of course your price was 70 cents yesterday and now it's only 63 cents, so why am I not surprised? According to Digikey, the fairchild 4060 is 77 cents in single qty, the ST part is 55 cents each.
What about the electronics learing curve? It's only about 1000 times larger, be for real. That's the same old tired mantra formerly sung by "professional tube circuit designers" when whining about having to learn yucky old transistor theory.
Odd how that is hard to tell now that you've snipped away the context. Hmm. :-/
If you must know, we were talking about another thread. The OP of that thread built a cheesy programmer circuit and substituted the one and only IC that it contains with a different number _and_ family. Therefore, it's really not too surprising that he can't get it to work.
The second sentence (as delineated by a capital letter and a period) refers to the other thread. The OP posted no useful information in his post. It was, therefore, typical of many newbie posts in that it went something like, "I built xxxx and it doesn't work, why?" You know.
The final sentence points out that the OP didn't have a PIC problem yet, just a programmer problem since it couldn't be detected by the programming software. This was, in fact, going to be the least of his problems since he'd need some way to put his new PIC chips into LVP mode before being able to program them.
What a hoot. Lord Garth brought the other thread up, not me. I didn't know that was not allowed anyhow. Is this another of your personal rules of engagement?
that
work.
What, no smart comments proving me wrong?
his
I think (outside of this thread) that most of the posts I've made here contained some kind of useful information pertaining to the thread. Perhaps you could point us to some of my "empty" posts? Would you like for me to do the same for you?
yet,
his
mode
Nothing to criticize again? I must be losing my edge.
The point had nothing to do with whether it worked or not. The point was your mistake, or "trypo" as you like to call them.
I never bothered to look that close. Obviously Fred is well aware that you often post non-working circuits.
typo
yet
It might be different if I was actually looking for errors in the schematic, but I simply wasn't. I just noticed the glaring "trypo" in the text.
Do you think that I have no other skills, or is circuit design all that is important?
Kinda like the pretense where you come off as a civil human being?
even
you
Actually, I meant that in a gullable sort of way. I've got your number now though.
Actually, I've been getting a kick out of watching you blow your top. :-)
I seriously doubt that I'll be reporting back much of anything about any of your circuits. I do suspect that I will be hearing from you more often in the future though.
in
maximum
My comments in the original post were rhetorical, haven't you figured that out yet?
post.
What's to defend, I admitted my little faux pa.
their
I didn't have to read 10,000 of them to figure out that you often go off like this. Four letter words, invectives and ad-hominem attacks seem to be a part of your regular forte.
you
Obviously
Really? Do ya think so?
As I said before, I didn't see a need to make a scene when I first saw your mistake in SED. After that, when you posted your little trick setup question in SEB, I felt a bit different. And then after Watson's snide little remark about attrocious advice, I posted my little sarcastic rant. And now here we are. Is that timeline really so hard to grasp?
and
See above.
S.E.B, I
As I originally posted in reply to your little trick query:
Perhaps "dissipate more power" would have been more appropriate than "hog more current".
So as we can all plainly see, 'current hogging' is your own little fabrication of terminology that I never used.
for
If you think I'm running low on ammo, just keep posting. ;-) I could care less how you run your business _or_ your life. That is until you wish to horn into my life with your petulent, pedantic crap.
should
been
Do you think that you've somehow proved that I didn't know the difference?
Again, like as stated earlier. I was originally going to say "juice" not current and not power. Again, I wish that I had just so I could see how you could have twisted that around. Is juice power, or is it current or maybe even energy? Again, my original intent was not to use the word power either, even though it would have been the "most correct" term. Hard to believe that set you onto a personal crusade to prove me a liar.
nonsense
boat
to
to
is
error.
What type of reply do you think you deserve at this point in our relationship?
circuit
Why do I think that no matter what I posted you would ridicule it?
As you have so aptly demonstrated, you would leave no stone unturned in order to crucify me.
Too funny.
I never said that I thought you were smarter than me. Only that you knew more about electronics. Don't flatter yourself, there is a difference.
Self important bullshit artist? That's got to be the most serious case of projection I've ever seen. Do you see me waving my credentials around? Do I have a sig line making bodacious claims?
That's not far from how I see things right now.
I don't know, what happened? How about you pick your own experiments, and I'll pick mine.
have
Really, and I'm supposed to be convinced by that statement? ROTFL I think I'll continue to decide for myself who I respect.
Crap is just a tad less ugly than FU, don't you think?
nickle,
period
configurable.
8 pins makes it trickier with just 6 for i/o, but not impossible. 1 pin to drive the relay leaves 5 jumpers and that still gives me an easy 32 steps to be used however I wish.
thread
a
solution?
through
one
generator
or
which
For a one off, one-time project either way would be stupid from a cost vs. return viewpoint.
$400
of
That's a real twisted interpretation of what I said there John. You might be surprised by what I've been able to glom together over here. I've even used a few transistors, op-amps and other icky analog stuff. I'd like to see you search a Dallas 1-wire bus using a bunch of 74xx's.
The projects that I've built are a wee bit more complicated than the project at hand. They would have been quite difficult to do without a micro. I'm not saying that they couldn't be done, but they'd have been real tough even by your standards I think.
I don't make a habit of bragging, but you make me feel obliged to put forth some kind of evidence of ability. Therefore here are some of my completed/working projects that I did:
I did an ultrasonic range finder w/lcd display. No biggy, but I used an op-amp and comparator. A pendulum clock beat analyzer w/lcd of course w/more analog stuff. Gives ratio of tick/tock beats/min etc.. An IR controlled temp sensor display that reported readings from various sensors strewn accros a 1-wire bus onto a graphical LCD screen. This uses cool looking OCR numbers created from picking apart MS Paint bitmap files (one of my cooler hacks, I think). All I had for the display was a datasheet.
I also did a phone line powered Caller-ID display with a software modem (that was probably the busiest PIC program I ever wrote with multiple ISR handlers). That worked ok, but it was never quite perfect (in the pure sense of the word). Since I don't have a DSO or logic analyzer I could figure out what the problem was. I chalked it up to eronious zero cross detects from 60HZ common mode noise on the phone line. Working with phone line powered stuff is a real pain since you can't ground anything. It was >99.9% correct, but that ain't good enough when one bit error wrenches it up in a major way.
My recent ultra low-power project is a temperature data logger that takes samples every 30 seconds and writes them to a 24C512. There is a DS1307 RTC and an LM34. The sleep current is > spend _anything_ on hardware which is going to gather dust after the
spend
As I already said about this, yes it would be stupid to learn an unecessary procedure for a one-off project. But then it would be stupid to undertake the project under those conditions anyway (single unit, super low cost). You can hardly justify the expense for any toolset under those conditions. You seem to view the micro learning as a per job expense, and I see it as a per life expense. As weve covered before, the only dollar cost in PIC development is in the programmer (and maybe the software that runs it). The rest of the devtools kit is free. So all I see is a $75 expense and some hours to learn about it(which a hobbiest, that's all it's about). Perhaps I am prejudiced since I have 25 years of "professional software design" experience. ;-)
to
that
You haven't seen any of my work, so what qualifies you to judge it? But that's what prejudice is all about, isn't it?
be
time
why
How so, if I code it up and flash the chips for him? Who's going to "hand me my ass" then?
Only making an observation, carry on as you see fit. Or is that me telling you what to do again?
every
the
That was never my argument. That's the argument you keep making back because that's all you think you hear from me. I wouldn't suggest someone buy dev tools for a one time simple project like this. In fact I wouldn't suggest that they buy much of anything as the cash outlay for minimal equipment is still ridiculous for a project like this. I would suggest they find someone that can do it for them and pay them.
for
in
it
difference"?
the
How many people learn to program a PIC for one simple project and then never use them again? That's got to be a fairly small number.
more
network
I
cheaper
aren't
cents
Not too stupid to see that you put forth numbers massaged to further your personal agenda.
the
You just called me stupid, yet you don't even bother to comment on this.
time
a
by
learn
Yes, we will all be duly impressed that you successfully designed a ripple counter to reset a router once an hour. Perhaps you can get another patent.
The soldering part was cute, but I'm not just out of school. I've actually been soldering for a "little while" now. Never was really interested in wire wrapping, to messy. I do allot of solderless breadboard stuff though. They're great for knocking out PIC projects.
If you really used that exact circuit, with three LEDs in series in each leg, then you have not killed any LEDs - 9V is simply not enough to make them conduct. With three LEDS with a forward voltage of 3.6V each, that's 3.6 * 3, or 10.8V, before any current will flow at all. It's probably somewhat lower, but once the forward threshold voltage is reached, the current increases exponentially, which is why you limit the current, and let the voltage find its own value.
Try two in series with a 91R resistor, as others have suggested, or use a 12V source, like on the website, and put three in series with 60 ohms - 62 is the nearest 5% value, I think.
Well duh, that would be the appropriate thing to do wouldn't it?
Did I say that somewhere? Since you mentioned it, don't you find the word professional to be tiny bit redundant? Why do you feel a need to tell the world that you really do get paid?
that
Translation: Yes, you probably do know a bunch of stuff that I don't know, but since I don't know it, it's not relevant.
Have I not communicated well enough?
Have you _ever_ seen me be confrontational to a newbie?
out.
You probably meant preemptive (without the non).
because
you?
number
Oh man, you're not going to start tossing spelling flames are you? How lame.
ROTFLMAO, oh yeah I'm definitely hooked.
any
Modicum and acumen in the same sentence. No wonder it took you all night to respond.
though.
OMG, I can't believe it. That must have been really hard. Maybe we can coexist then.
OK, here we go:
First I said, "Maybe I could help make amends by belittling others, nit-picking posts and posting a bunch of OT crap?". Then I said, "Lets see if we can't get on to the road to recovery now." That's all kinda the setup up indicating that sarcastic and rhetorical remarks may follow. And then they did. I jibed Watson since he tossed the first punch and you for what amounts to several reasons (mainly your setup question when I've never slapped at you before, I knew what you were trying to do and it torqued me off, finally I've frankly found you to be a bit offensive lately and without cause to other people namely Larry). So while it may not have been entirely rhetorical, I really didn't expect this outcome.
sarcasm?
Why are spell checking my old posts now?
suggest
off
to
I've read some of it and you have your good side.
Actually I use the "F" word plenty well, I just tend to not spell it out in usenet articles. Just trying to consider the children. ;-)
Interesting extrapolation you made there.
didn't
saw
Watson's
hard
At the time that is how I felt. And then you changed all that when you tried to bust my chops on current vs. power or "current hogging" as you like to call it. So, you prompted the horse change, not me.
and
Yes, it's all about what serves your agenda best, isn't it?
who,
I
could
you
make
the
is
And I thought by saying "dissipate more power" that I made it perfectly clear that I knew what you were hinting at. How direct does something need to be before you can see it?
is
one
power
see
See, I knew I should have used it.
was
reply.
Do you really think that? I doubt that you do.
In my own simple minded terms, current is the rate of electron flow. X electrons in Y amount of time. Power is just putting some voltage behind it so that we have the rate that work is being done, energy is just putting a time constraint on how much total power is available to do work (i.e. a 12V 8AH battery contains 96WH of energy). Is that good enough or do you want joules, coulombs and other textbook what not?
in
If that's how you feel, maybe you should listen to your conscience.
huge
smarter
;-)
to
just
case
See, there you go making prejudicial statements again. You have no idea.
power
Vf
experiments,
So there we have it, the OP has been proven wrong. His LED's could not have possibly failed.
might
deserving
doesn't
I
I was honestly going to say that, but I didn't want to seem pretentious. LOL
and
Yes, I'd agree that we buried your civility a good while ago.
Yupm note that 3.6V is typical. And yes, the LEDs *do* burn on 7V, since
2V / LED = Vf min, which leaves 1V for the resistor, and hence: 1V/56 Ohm = 17.8 mA through each LED, which is well within range.
Uhm I think you misread their posts, or I did, I am not the OP.
It's mine, I did :-). Ok I will describe what exactly happened: the first LED that died on me: when I heated it (I thought I didn't solder it right, "cold connection" (no idea of the right English expression), so I made the solder melt again: LED worked (and all 3 in a row worked). When I added more LEDs (I was building the circuit), and tested again: 3 LEDs didn't work, so I used the solder iron again on the suspicious part: it worked. After a few attempts I gave up, and replaced the LED.
When I had finished the circuit and had it running for quite some time (on < 12V), one row started to flash on and off several times (quite rapidly, like a tube light starting), and then went off all together. Same problem. I did a burn in test of the circuit for quite some time (I am not sure, guess 12V or close, for one hour), and no other LEDs showed the same problem. So out of 50 LEDs, 2 gave problems. I wonder if this is "normal", ie: it is the quality of the badge?
Moreover, I bought a multimeter, and will check the voltage over each and every LED, etc.
68 as far as I know. However, I consider 56 Ohm well within range, since the max current is 30 mA.
--
John MexIT: http://johnbokma.com/mexit/
personal page: http://johnbokma.com/
Experienced programmer available: http://castleamber.com/
Happy Customers: http://castleamber.com/testimonials.html
I guess that means my ego gets enough to eat without me feeding it.
Those words are mutually exclusive, so yes I'd be embarrassed to call myself that.
paid?
Pot, kettle black and all that.
I think we all could have appreciated you researching your case BEFORE making it. Now you've gone and said all kinds of hateful, mean, and ugly things to me just because I made one statement that really wasn't all that bad.
figured
to
sarcastic
Watson
without
And isn't that precisely what it did? Did you not feel personally bombasted?
There was absolutely no invective involved. I merely posed a question, it could have been phrased nicer, but it was just a question nonetheless. Perhaps you should rethink that statement.
of
of
Perhaps I should just send you a box of characters then you can completely construct the sentences for me. That way you'll always know what I mean.
out
The children thing was just a joke, didn't you see the winkey?
Yes, well that certainly justifies it, doesn't it?
that
you
you
your
perfectly
something
Exactly, that's the whole problem. You posted your "trick" question and Watson saw it for what it was and made his snide remark. That directly makes you the proximate cause of this whole fiasco. ;-)
No, just a good recollection of what happened when.
I already did my bragging in another post that you have yet to respond to. .
formatting link
so,
for a
Vf
happens.
regardless
with
not
Oh, obviously. Yes they died after a time, but it had nothing to do with too much dissipation. We know that, because the datasheet is the end-all authority on the reality of any situation and that all parts meet specs. Well, I'm sure glad that's finally settled.
ElectronDepot website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.