X.10 Pro Copyright

Hello Bob,

No idea but that protocol is really old. IIRC more than 20 years which somehow makes me doubt.

Anyway, after using X10 modules for many years I am growing less and less enthused about it. It's a carrier on-off AM protocol, not very noise tolerant. I can't understand why they didn't use an FM scheme.

Regards, Joerg

It would need to be a patent; copyright cannot apply here I think.

X10 claims the code format is patented. Find the patent, find out what it says, when it expires, and how you can interoperate. Or don't go looking for the patent and save yourself teh triple damages or whatever.

Clever companies make products that are backward compatible with old ones, but use new stuff so it can be patented. Maybe using the old stuff is enough.

Thomas

I think the relevant X10 patent numbers have been discussed here relatively recently, so they should be easy to find with a Google search.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

--- From

"A Brief History of X10 The X10 Power Line Carrier (PLC) technology was originally developed in the 1970s by Pico Electronics in Scotland. Pico formed a joint venture with BSR in 1978 called X-10 Ltd. and the first shipments of X10 products began in 1979. Over the 18 years that followed, millions of X10 compatible devices have shipped and the number of different X10 compatible products has grown from a handful in 1979 to hundreds today. X-10 Ltd. bought out BSR?s interest in 1987. The original X10 patent expired in December 1997. X10 is now an open standard and many manufacturers are developing new and improved X10 products."

-- John Fields Professional Circuit Designer

I couldn't find the s.e.d. discussion, but here's an interesting post by David Buckley on comp.home.automation in 1996:

David Buckley Jan 14 1996, Newsgroups: comp.home.automation From: David Buckley Date: 1996/01/14 Subject: X-10 PATENTS

X-10 Patents - The story so far...

There are four patents directly covering X-10, each of which appears in a number of forms for the varying requirements of the given patent authority. All patents are assigned to Pico Electronics Limited, of Scotland, in the United Kingdom.

The First and Main X-10 Patent:

This covers most of the essential features of X-10 as we know it. It's all there, 120Khz pulses, timing, sending commands twice (more accurately, 'at least once'), including little things like dimming commands, and ultrasonic remote control. This latter feature is probably because Pico Electronics also have a patent on ultrasonic remotes, using PWM technology.

David Chester Campbell, David Richard Thompson. UK: Filed as 19428/77, Abandoned UK: 1592971, filed 7Jan77, pub 15Jul81 US: 4,200,862, filed 28Dec77, pub 29Apr80 De: 2800472

The Second Patent:

This patent has a sketch of a US style (decora?) wall plate with 4 rocker 'buttons' on it. It knows how to handle two or more buttons pressed together.

The concept of 'collision detection' is added, i.e., it listens to the mains to ensure it doesn't transmit when someone else is already doing so.

Also, this patent covers 'multiple unit addressing' from one button press.

Finally, the concept of transmitting the carrier bursts over the full half cycle is covered, as an aid to more reliable operation particularly in multi-phase scenarios.

There is also a disclaimer to a number of the claims of the US version of patent filed (gazette 15May88), but despite intensive searching, I couldn't find it!

US: 4,628,440, Filed 12Nov85, pub 9Dec86 UK: Filed as 81/32173, withdrawn, replaced by EP. EP: 0078,171, Filed 25Oct82, Pub 7Jan88

The Repeater Patent:

This covers regenerating X-10 commands across phases and separate electrical systems. It also amplifies (ugh!) on the earlier statement that commands are sent twice, rather than 'at least once'.

Author: David C Campbell US: 4,638,299, Filed 28Mar83, Pub 20Jan87 UK: Filed as 82/10198, withdrawn. EP: 0,091,290, Filed 31Mar83, Pub 19Nov87

The Better Receiver Patent:

Most early X-10 designed used an analogue method of 120Khz tone detection. This patent suggests using digital techniques, implemented in software, to extract the tone. This stuff will be familiar to any DSP gurus, and the math is well above me. Claim is for improved performance in poor signal and high noise environments.

US: 5,005,187, filed: 23Mar89, Pub 24Apr91.

Other things bumped into during research:

UK 1535834 and 1535835, US 3,911,415: All from Westinghouse. X-10 differentiates itself from these patents, which are all to do with reading electricity meters remotely etc. Filed 26Jan76, pub

US 4,418,333 - This is the first useful input from WWW searches, covers the concept of the remembered light level in a remote control system. Donald J Yusko, assigned to Pittway Corp, pub 29Nov83.

US 43,777,754 - Also from a web search, and despite the number looking wrong, it's what it said. Covers the quick "off on off" flick to change an appliance from the off state to on. Another one from Pico Electronics. Filed 26Feb81, pub 22Mar83.

Note: I didn't see the words 'Powerhouse' or 'X-10' during any of the reviewing.

David Buckley of Electric Solutions Ltd | Email: snipped-for-privacy@esl.tex.com Services to the Computing,Electronics | and Entertainment industries. |

Can you tell me if CBUS still has industry interest?

Tnx

Don

"Bob Monsen" ha scritto nel messaggio news: snipped-for-privacy@comcast.net...

Around there is also other device able to connect and use the X-10 protocol, in other thread we've talking about this protocol. For example you can use this power modem:

to send and receive X-10 signal.

I think for personal use you can't have any trouble, may be some question if you think to send some plant claimed to be X-10 compliant, in this way, I think (but really I don't know then you've to perform some serach to sure about that) you have to request a certification for the plant before talking about it as X-10 compliant apparatus/plant.

Cheers Fabio