Windows 7/Dream PC 2006 suddenly shutsdown during COH1 and COH2 beta.

Well "fok me" (not literally :))

The GT 520 actually requires 18 amperes ?! Holy fok ?!

And the power supply only delivers 20 amperes max ?!

So the theory that the GT 520 might go a bit over 20 seams reasonable...

I think we might have found our culprit ?!

FOOOOOOOOOK.

Why the fok does GT 520 need 18 amperes ?!?!?!?!?!?

Bye, Skybuck.

So can your power supply handle 2.4 amps from the 12V rail.

I think so.

The "imaginative" current rating in the documentation, is an estimate of the *total system current* . And there's no way they can guess that with any accuracy. But you can work it out for yourself, if you want. (Work out power requirements for each component, add together.)

Paul

Especially as there are other devices pulling +12V power.

Heh, the GeForce 9600 GT requires 26. That's why I recognized the problem. Had a power supply that was rated for 24 amps on the

Wouldn't boot with three usb devices connected. Any two of the three, was ok, but not all three.

Replaced the ps with a 750 watt unit with 52 amps on the +12V rail, and it's been working fine since then.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

Perhaps you mistakenly have one of the 'crash-me' flags in the BIOS config set? ...if it is one of _those_ chipsets...

Have fun trying all the different combinations... And if that does not work, try again with all available versions/combinations of GFX/chipset drivers etc...

OMG. The legend of Zelda lives on :-(

Whacking great power supplies are not required.

Intelligence is required !

Think about it. Examine the evidence.

"Wouldn't boot with three usb devices connected. Any two of the three, was ok, but not all three."

On modern systems, USB bus power comes from the +5VSB rail. The power supply label may list

or it might show

When you have a problem with the system falling over, and the problem seems to be related to the number of USB bus loads, then the problem is hinting at the +5VSB rating, not the +12V rating. A 750W supply, has a *huge* 12V rating, but none of that huge rating is of any consequence, if the +5VSB was only 2A. It's like a weightlifter with huge biceps, and tiny thin ankles. You decided, to "make your biceps bigger", by buying a 750W supply. In fact, the reason you fell over, was your "ankles were too small". You're looking for a limitation in the wrong place. The limitation was elsewhere. If +5VSB is overloaded, and the output drops out, the entire system shuts off in response.

How do I research these things ? With a clamp-on DC ammeter. That allows measuring each DC current flow, and determining current system state.

It is highly unlikely the Geforce 9600 is "drawing 26 amps". When NVidia quotes a ridiculous number like that, it is the sum total of:

CPU power (draws from 12V rail) CPU_watts / 12V = CPU amps Video card (draws mostly from 12V rail) For Skybuck, it is 2.4 amps Hard drive motor current, about 12V @ 0.6A per drive Optical drive, about 12V @ 1.0A when media is inserted Cooling fans, current draw is printed on fan hub, 0.1 amps

You can work out these numbers, and you'll soon see that your system doesn't even come close to "26 amps".

This is why I recommend calculating the numbers, for each rail, and working it out for yourself.

I *hate* when people buy power supplies in ignorance.

You can use a power supply sizing web site. At least one of the sites is getting closer to doing the calculation properly. The first sites offering this service (doing the calculation for you), were off by a factor of 2.

I also do calculations on demand for people, when the need arises. Once you've determined the size, added a small amount of margin (say 30% margin on 12V rail), that should be plenty. Even my calculation is relatively conservative. For example, the boiler plate value on my optical drive, is 1.5A (2.5A on Blu Ray). But using my clamp-on ammeter, I checked one optical drive here, and with media in the tray it was 1.0 amps. Measurements can add some refinement to the calculations.

Let's work some CPU numbers, and see how conservative they are.

I have a 65W CPU in my backup computer system.

The basic calculation is 65W / 12V = 5.42 amps

That's the amount of 12V current, to supply an estimated 65W TDP for the processor.

The VCore power converter, is a switching power supply. It is not 100% efficient. To hint that is the case, when I do power calculations for people, I pretend the efficiency is 90%. The actual figure could be 80% or 85%, it's really hard to guess. So I use a figure like 90%, to show the conversion is not 100% efficient. Now my estimate of CPU current becomes

Now, let's study the actual processor. I place the clamp-on ammeter around the two yellow wires of the ATX12V 2x2 square connector.

System idle - current flow 1.1 amps Run Prime95 100% loading - current flow 3.0 amps

So my E4700 only uses 36 watts flat out (12 volts times 3 amps). Historically, some of the older S478 (Northwood) processors, they came very close to their TDP value. Some of the Core2 processors, the lower end ones, were well under their TDP rating. My E8400, I think it might have weighed in around 43 watts or so.

Consequently, when I do a power calc, and I use TDP as an estimate, it may still be over-estimating the current draw. Neither of my two processors, draws the TDP value of 65W.

For Skybuck, his system power draw is 200W. There is no need for a 750W or 1200W supply, they're just a waste of money.

And don't forget, that all the rails count. Even if you have a gazillion watt supply, as long as the motherboard makers insist on running all the USB bus power from +5VSB, and the power supplies have no more than 3 amps to offer, there will be instances of systems shutting off because of it. On the older motherboards, a series of jumper plugs on the motherboard, allowed you to run some USB ports from +5V (main rail, good for perhaps 20 to 30 amps). Instead of the tiny

*******

A Kill-O-Watt meter is cheap, and allows you to bound what your PC is doing. If Skybuck owned one of these, he could see his system power vary from 80W when the system was idle, to perhaps 200W when gaming. This would be immediate evidence, that a 750W or 1200W supply would be a total waste. These are cheap, and can tell you whether you're even getting close to the thermal limit of the ATX supply.

When you want to study system power usage, at the main ATX cables, you use a clamp-on ammeter to get the amps. Some clamp-on meters, measure AC amps only, and are used by central air conditioning installers. My meter, measures both DC amps and AC amps. And the PC has DC amps on the major DC outputs of the supply.

The benefits of that meter, versus a conventional ammeter.

I use the 40A DC range, for "inside the PC" work. I used the 400A DC range, for working on my car. I use the 40A AC range, when checking my central air.

A more sensitive DC range would be nice on that meter, but I can live with it.

HTH, Paul

YOU ARE AN IDIOT. THAT IS WAHT THE SUPPLY IS RATED AT FULLY LOADED ON ALL RAILS.

But in reality one rail IS pushed nearly to it's max. My mini ATX won't even consider booting with a supply of less than 300W, and even that one sometimes fails to have it POST up.

I'll bet his system uses more than the number you declared.

The supply rating, is the maximum value it can provide. At any instant, the power provided can vary from zero to the maximum value. If you draw more than the maximum value, the supply overheats (or OCP) and turns off.

When you use a 750W supply, it does not draw 750W all the time. The power company bill does not reflect the 750W value. What it does reflect, is the real usage of power.

Skybucks components draw roughly 200W, by calculation.

The label of the supply, is actually very informative. Every number on there means something. The numbers are not there for window dressing.

Not only does the overall supply have a maximum power rating (thermal limit perhaps). The supply also has current flow limits (when the load is unbalanced on the multiple rails). So it's possible to tip over a 750W supply, merely by drawing 20W from the 5V @ 3A max rail. The necessary info is on that label.

The legend of Zelda lives on.

Do the analysis.

This is not a monster truck rally. It's something you can work out for yourself, using nothing more than a four function calculator. You can buy just the right power supply for the job, and have money left over for beer at the end of the week.

Paul

You might want to go back to the S12. They are super power supplies for the "era." It is just a matter of getting extension cables, which I admit wasn't easy to find locally, but I'm sure they exist on the internet.

That is "always wrong". Nothing intelligent ever comes from him so just ignore him.

As the process technology scaled, for a given performance level, the power usage actually decreased. What used to take SLI can now be done with one card. The mainstream graphics cards have gone from 40nm to 28nm technology.

P=C*v^2*F

For the same performance level, new card power should be half of the old power. The problem is people are going for more pixels and better rendering, hence the power hungry cards. There is the other school of crappy graphics is better than good graphics, i.e. Minecraft. Kind of retro.

No s*it, you retarded f*ck. I do not need a primer. I designed built power supplies for a living for years.

I know exactly what the declaration is.

YOU are the one who has the problem.

And you know f*ck-all nothing about "skybuck" or his problem(s)

Snipped more stupid s*it

More proof that you are clueless.

Power supplies are rated to deliver their stated voltage into the stated loading level at 100% duty, always on.

Any further loading results in a reduced regulated voltage level or an increased PARD or noise figure. Both of which are unacceptable on a "power" "supply" meant to power a specific digital device.

So even if the meter still reads 5 Volts, it will not be within the noise figure spec at all.

snipped more

You are an idiot.

There is no such term used in the industry. You mother was "tipped over".

A 15 watt rail cannot deliver 20W regardless of the loading on the other rails, you stupid ditz!.

YOU cannot "work out" anything with or without your calculator and you kill-a-watt device.

and YOU probably never ever had a system where you actually taxed the video card to its limits.

Ever run the CUDA app over at seti@home for a few units worth?

Yeah... you know all about "power draw". NOT!

And you again prove that you are a goddamned idiot, boy.

You are a goddamned retard. Video cards are not the same as CPUs.

Learn to speak English, you retarded f*ck. and then proofread your stupidity so it doesn't look even more stupid.

Yeah, but their performance has quintupled, and their usage has gone UP, not down, you stupid f*ck!

Yeah, we do not need a primer on electronics from you either, you stupid f*ck.

You just gave yourself the reason why you are 00% wrong. NEW video cards do NOT perform at the rate of the cards they replace. They OUTPERFORM them. But NOT in power consumption.

Get a cue, dumbass.

Wrong again. SAME pixels, as displays have all gone "HD".

Mine is at 2048 x 1152, but it is the exception and these displays are not in much use in gaming or computers at all.

You really are one lost disinformation dipshit, boy.

THAT WOULD BE 100% WRONG, NOT 00%

SO DON'T GET YOUR BLOOMERS IN A BUNCH, BOY.

Oh... too late for that.

I think I found the cause of this.

It's actually a feature of the winfast motherboard.

I think it shuts down if the CPU reaches the threshold of 50 degrees celcius as set in the bios.

I don't know yet how it exactly works... there is also a tolerance of 5...

Hmmm...

Kinda funny.

So it's overheat protection ;)

Bye, Skybuck.

NF4SK8AA-8EKRS

PDF page 51 "PC Health".

It doesn't say how to adjust it, but tab to the field and try the "+" and "-" keys.

Paul

Jon