Why not closed loop speaker amplification?

Jun 07, 2005 41 Replies

The biggest problem with this approach is that, above self resonance (where most of the energy is pumped into a speaker) it is an force or velocity device, not a position device. That is, the force applied to the mass of the speaker (and the considerable mass of the air in front of it) is proportional to the current delivered to the speaker. So there is a considerable phase shift between the speaker current and the position of the cone, as well as an integrator type frequency response (reduced excursion at higher frequencies for similar current). So any servo type of drive has to take that into consideration. It is the pressure (fluid force) that is ideally close to being in lockstep with the driving waveform, not the position.

Of course, a close microphone could provide nearly real time pressure feedback.

"Chris Carlen" schreef in bericht news: snipped-for-privacy@news2.newsguy.com...

Search for "Motional Feedback" speakers from Philips (AFAIK used for woofers only)

Regards, Arie de Muynck

schreef in bericht news: snipped-for-privacy@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

They were incredibly good, and were capable of delivering an enormous loud bass without distortion. In 1973 (?) I heard this speakers for the first time. Of cource it was demonstrated with a soundtrack containing large timpanis, and it was 2*LOUD*2 and it was incredible. For an extra dramatic effect, the demonstration was with (thin) curtains in front, that were opened shortly after an impressive intro of the demonstration.

formatting link

Still worth a fortune, in particular the 22RH532 if you can find someone who wants to sell. I don't think Philips has sold many, too expensive probably for the average guy.

Thanks, Frank. (remove \'q\' and \'invalid\' when replying by email)
[...]

That's mechanical.

Mike Monett

You call those horns? That is a whole house heating system. If you want real horns you'll need a shovel ;)

formatting link
(Scroll down)

Regards,

Boris Mohar

Got Knock? - see: Viatrack Printed Circuit Designs (among other things)

formatting link

I don't know. Here's the schematic:

formatting link

Thanks, Frank. (remove \'q\' and \'invalid\' when replying by email)

Yep I was right, Elektor published a Negative Feedback system in their

1975 issue, the system was called "Sonant" and was on page 230 of issue number two. Which proves my theory once again, that Elektor is by far the best hobby/pro mag on the block. Which also goes to prove what a sad twat I am.

Can someone tell me why no-feedback is all that important?

You've got a live performance into a microphone with feedback, to some recording process with feedback, to some mixing session with feedback, to some digitizing process with feedback and a bunch of other nasty sampling things, to a distribution medium, to a CD player that puts it back to analog. And horror of horrors, older recordings had TAPE!!!! in the mix.

Worrying about whether the speaker driver has feedback seems like...well...it seems as insane as worrying about the grain structure of your silver speaker wires... mike

Audio Express 9/04 described a 12" Dual Voice Coil Subwoofer system designed by Daniel L. Ferguson. The second voice coil is used as the feedback transducer.

That has been tried a lot, but the mutual coupling between the coils make this approach pretty much useless.

ciao Ban Bordighera, Italy

Aha! "Temporal distortion"... the headache I get listening to audiophools ;-)

...Jim Thompson

| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | | | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat | | http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

The emitter bypasses on the output transistors are hilarious. As is the claim of 75% efficiency.

And it *does* have feedback!

John

It isn't. The writer of that site is completely clueless concerning amplifier design, and how such designs relates to sound. He's a technical quack.

Correctly applied feedback is absolutely wonderful. End of story.

Kevin Aylward snipped-for-privacy@anasoft.co.uk

formatting link
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture, Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

"Boris Mohar" a écrit dans le message de news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

Did you notice their high end amp schematics?

formatting link

Hope the horns work better.

Thanks, Fred.

In a feedback motion control system, the feedback can be based on position or velocity or acceleration, or on a combination of these.

Mark

The "blu eyes" output stage sure does have local feedback; just follow straight down from the first 'e' in "even locally"

Gaah: unreadable!

John

Yup, I figured you did. Irony doesn't work well in newsgroups, as I've discovered.

John

"John Larkin" a écrit dans le message de news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

want

Class B is 78%. This is probably a class B Class_A_amplifier.

No, it's written : No feedback, even locally. :-)))

You'd better update your knowledge by reading his white paper (

formatting link
) and you'll know where is cutting edge audio technology today.

If you ask politely, he may grant you the rights to use his no feedback technology for your NMR amplifiers. Should be interesting :-)

Thanks, Fred.

"John Larkin" a écrit dans le message de news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

le

you

Sure. I _did_ see that. Was just joking about him.

Thanks, Fred.

What a staggeringly bad amplifier !

I really think I'm in the wrong business sometimes.

Graham

Join the Discussion

Have something to add? Share your thoughts — no account required.

Didn't find your answer?

Ask the community — no account required