Which uController to learn?

GEEEZ -- I gave up writing ASM for the 1st cut about 20 years ago -- the compilers available even then were efficient enough that you only needed to get down and dirty for the most critical timing dependent code.. there just isnt a point in starting off with ASM considering that C maps almost 1-to-1 to most assembly languages for most of its internal features. And the WinAVR C compiler makes it real easy to embed ASM right in the C code so I can do it in C first, then convert just the parts that need it in place with a perfectly working and tested "flow chart" right in front of me.

In addition.. for 99% of apps, you'll never bother with ASM because the compiled code will work right off and nothing will need to be hand optimized... you've gotta be right on the ragged edge of what the chip is capable of before ASM is going to help you, and 99% of apps wont even come close to that limit.

Names! Names! Names! (please). I agree with what you say, but I need the benefit of y'all's experience. Which controller "variants of processors that use 68000 instruction set" and which don't do "lumpy exceptions or stack size restrictions..." etc.

Just need to know what name to call these lovelies by.

True, some OSs suck more than others. OTOH, some suck so much they simply blow.

I haven't looked closely in the past couple of years. 8051s had it all over others several years back. I had plenty of 8051s (and the environment) for my last project so I just used them. only needed ten. ;-)

The 8051 is extreme Harvard. It makes sense once you break the von Neuman mindset. A von Neuman controller is a waste.

How so? ...at least until 64K no bank switching is needed. After

AFAIC, the 8051 is a good choice as a bit-banger, which was what it was designed to do. As I've said, I've never used a PIC (or seriously looked at it, even) so I can't compare the two. My assumption is that the PIC architects aren't brain-dead (like Dimbulb).

I'm not so sure they ALL do. ;-)

There really isn't any ambiguity with an 8051 either. Gazinta bit and a gazouta bit and a couple of rules. Some tieups may be needed for shared pins. Share pins and you'll have that.

I'm certainly not afraid of them, just never had an opportunity. Maybe I'll buy a kit and play.

ARMs don't thrill me much. Too much power. I'd likely have to learn C. ;-)

Too much for what? The one I am using draws 70mA typical. Of course, you can run an AVR for less than 1mA. In my case, I use an AVR to power control an ARM. The ARM can do the job quicker so both can go back to sleep ASAP.

Why? They work in assemblers too, even if I don't.

Some people would say that if you're *not* at the edge of what the microcontroller can do, you're using one that's too expensive. ;)

Same for PCs. How many people really need the 3GHz Dual core PC to read this newsgroup?

Power as in MIPS, not as in mA. If I want MIPS I'd go with a PPC of some sort.

With the MIPS available one wouldn't likely be doing bit-banging, which is where assembler excels.

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Why would too much MIPS bother you? You don't have to use pay per MIPS.

I haven't seen any PPC in low pin count with internal memories yet. The Arm I am using is 64K flash, 8K sram on chip in 48 pins QFP.

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And you are using a AVR to turn it on? I would think a small ARM like that can be throttled down to run at about the same power as an AVR ( 1 mA), the AVR and Atmel ARM's have about the same W/hz, as an example, but the AVR's have much better sleep modes

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Certainly you pay for MIPS. They don't give processors away free.

More variables not stated in the parameters.

I don't need a pickup truck to go to the pub either but it comes in handy at the dump. This dual 1.86GHz laptop is kinda nice too (once I put enough memory on it).

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ARMs that

Mainly with the clock. The Avr can run down to 32KHz, but the Arm cannot go much below 1MHz (I believe).

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ARMs that

The Arm and Avr are close to the same price, around $5 each.

Nothing wrong with PPC, but I would not call it a uC.

So, you don't like it because it's too good for you?

Terran: Its cheaper for me to buy a stick of chips with the quantity discount than it is to buy the minimal chip that will do the job each time I come up with a new project :) Plus I dont have to wait for the new chips to show up -- always have a few on hand :) I've probably got 4 or 5 flavors of AVR hangin around... from 18 pin to 40 pin with various flash/ram/eeprom combos -- I just use whatever I got that will do the job at all :) havent run into a project yet where the processor was out of the idle loop more than 50% of the time :) hehehe I guess I could meet your criteria by cranking the clock speed down a bunch !! but for me -- the processor has only 2 speeds -- the fastest it will do without a crystal -- and the fastest it will do with one :) I dont see the point of putting a slower crystal in then having to bust nuts to make the code work.

Linnix: hehehehe ---- If I only used my Dual 2.8g hyperthreaded Xeon with 4 gigs ram to read newsgroups -- welllll :) but between editing DVD masters, programming AVRs and C#, designing databases, apps and websites, editing graphics, controlling my CNC mill, running 8-10 hour spice simulations on

KRW: I dont have a (working) laptop at the moment -- but the pub sounds like a good idea !!

AVR, if you don't mind wimpy pins.

The TI MSP430 -- the small ones at least have oodles of pin drive, they appear to have a rational architecture, they're fast, and you can get a complete development system from TI for $20.

ARM, if you don't mind wading through all the different versions that are available to find what you want (check those pin drive capacities!). The instruction set is rational, but only in a screwy, RISC sort of way. The capabilities are HUGE, and so is the set of mistakes you can make -- I wouldn't recommend it for a beginner.

PowerPC -- Freescale has embedded versions. Same snarky comment about the instruction set as ARM, but still way better than a PIC.

Those are the ones that I'm familiar with.

Oh -- _not_ the Intersil/RCA 1802, unless you want to be an ace assembly language programmer. It was the very first processor I ever worked with, in 8th grade. I call it a NHISC -- Never Had an Instruction Set. I don't know if it's still around, but for quite a while it was the king of little space apps, because it had a huge geometry that could absorb cosmic rays without even noticing that they were there.

I recommend Microchip PIC, starting 18F series because it has build in multiplier. =A3100 for complier package and =A3100 for ICD2 programmer/ debugger. MPLAB is free.

Damn google no longer accept my email and change into more complex emil, so I say goodbye to this discussion group.

This gets back to the "intended-application" discussion. While it's nice to have a "family" of chips you've spent the better part of your adult engineering life understanding, there are times when you simply must stretch the envelope.

Like my current project for instance. It has to "rob" power from something that was never intended to deliver it. I need to powerdown more than roughly 90% of the time, drawing no more than a few uA. And not much more than 100uA for the other 10% of the time. Oh, and for that, the clock speed is barely 20kHz (+/- 10%).

I think "MIPS" is a pipe dream for this one.

-mpm

plenty left

ARMs that

AIUI PICs are in the $1 range.

Embedded is embedded.

(now you sound like Dimbulb) I'm not a fscking programmer. I do it because it sometimes needs to be done.