Varic theory

> You're treating all the windings as separate inductors, but ignoring > the mutual inductance. All those turns are wound on the same core. >

Your right... lets figure it out then, shall we(as if your going to following along anyways)?

Since the point was to find a law relating the voltages we have

V1 = L1*I1' + M*I2' V2 = L2*I2' + M*I1'

Now I1 = I2 + I3 where I3 is the current into the tap: Z2 = 2nd inductor impedence, Z3 = load impedence. The current divder law gives

I2 = Z3/(Z2 + Z3)*I1 = Z*I1 (Z is unitless) I2' = Z*I1' + Z'*I1

or

V1 = (L1 + M*Z)*I1' + M*Z'*I1 V2 = (L2*Z + M)*I1' + L2*Z'*I1

Canceling the I1's gives

L2*V1 - M*V2 = [L2*(L1 + M*Z) - M*(L2 + M)]*I1'

= [L1*L2 + M*Z*L2 - M*L2 - M^2]*I1'

With me so far?

We know that M = k*sqrt(L1*L2)

so

L2*V1 - M*V2 = [(1 - k^2)*L1*L2 + (Z + 1)*M*L2)]*I1'

Now substituting V1 = V - V2 we have

L2*V - L2*V2 - M*V2 = L2*V - (L2 + M)*V2 = ...

Solving for (L2 + M)*V2 gives

(L2 + M)*V2 = L2*V - [(1 - k^2)*L1*L2 + (Z + 1)*M*L2)]*I1'

Solving for V2 gives

V2 = L2/(L2 + M)*V - [(1 - k^2)*L1*L2 + (Z + 1)*M*L2)]*I1'/(L2 + M)

V2 = Tau*V - Gamma*I1'

Note if Gamma is 0 or practically 0 then We have a voltage divider effect. I.e., V2 ~= Tau*V. Tau depending on L1 and L2 and there ratio sets tau(it is not linear necessarily but we'll investigate that later).

The main thing is to determine Gamma:

There are 4 cases

(Ideal transformer => k = 1, High load => Z = 0)

For an ideal transformer k = 1 so we have

Gamma = M*L2/(L2 + M)

M = sqrt(L1*L2)

or

Gamma = 1/(1/L2 + 1/sqrt(L1*L2))

Note if L2 or L1 is small then Gamma ~= 0. Only for large inductance do we get a gamma that is large. (note this doesn't necessarily mean the voltage divider effect out of play as we will see shortly)

Even for 1H inductances we get Gamma = 1/2

But then

V2 = Tau*V - I1/2

But unless Tau*V is compariable to the current being drawn it doesn't have much of an effect. Take V = 110V and tau = 0.25 and drawing 3A. Which is approximately 5% off the ideal case.

For your run of the mill transformers obviously L1 and L2 are much much smaller and obviously the effect will be insiginificant. (although for very low voltages and high current's the effect is much stronger)

(Ideal transformer => k = 1, Low load => Z = 1)

Obviously with Z = 1 we at most double the value of I1.

For the Ideal transformer and practical configurations, while theoretically you are correct, for all practical purposes the mutual inductance has no effect.

(Completely Non-ideal transformer => k = 0, High load => Z = 0)

In this case we have and additional factor of L1*L2 to boost I1. But again, for all practical cases it is very small. (M = 0 in this case and the other term gets knocked out)

(Completely Non-ideal transformer => k = 0, Low load => Z = 1)

Again, this just doubles the effect which is still quite small.

--------------------

Conclusion

While you are theoretically correct about the mutual inductance, it just doesn't have any effect on the voltage dividing effect in practical terms(at least in all but the most extreme cases).

So we are left with simply only with V2 = Tau*V

Tau is the voltage dividing effect. It is set by choosing the ratio of L1 and L2.

Tau = L2/(L2 + M)

If L2 = 0 then Tau = 0 and this is exactly what we expect

If M = 0 ==> Either no mutual inductance or L1 = 0 then Tau = 1 and this is exactly what we expect.

The curve is nonlinear

BUT NOTE

What does L2/(L2 + M) look like??

How bout the resistive divider law!!!!!!!!!

Genius huh?

Reply to
Jon Slaughter
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Reply to
a7yvm109gf5d1

I've worked with a couple of engineers who did the same sort of thing. They would cover pages with equations, reach some clearly absurd conclusion, and insist that the result was true because there was the math to say so... even when the conclusion defied physics, common sense, and easily observed reality.

The short-term fix was to present a simple numerical counter-case. The long-term fix was different.

Do you actually own a Variac?

John

Reply to
John Larkin

[snip]

Did you know that if you buy a variac at Frys that within about a month its brush will become stuck in its holder and the damn thing won't work and you'll have to take it all apart and clean the brush and its holder and get all that goowee stuff they call lubricant off and relubricate with some REAL stuff and put it all back together and swear that you'll never buy cheap electronic test equipment ever again?

Bob

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== All google group posts are automatically deleted due to spam ==
Reply to
BobW

Here you go guys for the analysis. Not like you'll read it and understand it. (too complicated for your high shool education?)

No doubt it will do any good...

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Are there any real engineers out there?

Reply to
Jon Slaughter

Neither link works. I'm not surprised.

John

Reply to
John Larkin

2nd link works fine... I'm not supprised either. You tried one and assumed both didn't work.

First link doesnt' work because mediafire reports the wrong link when you first uplaod. Of course I'm sure you'll blame it on me to justify your in ability to follow basic math.

Reply to
Jon Slaughter

Are you? Where did you graduate form, when, in what, and are you member of your local engineering body?

Reply to
a7yvm109gf5d1

Neither works. If you want to verify this for yourself, just go into your browser options and find the checkboxes which enable all of the malware distribution methods (JavaScript, Java, ActiveX, etc), and disable them. Then try to download your file.

Or you could just post it to alt.binaries..

Reply to
Nobody

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