Surplus electricity

Pools are mostly expensive nuisances. And baby killers.

That sure sounds inefficient. 5% maybe? I wonder if he actually saved money doing that.

Of course free things are wasted.

John Larkin Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center Lunatic Fringe Electronics

There's a limit to just how hot you can get the water before it becomes uncomfortable to use. I found 104F to NOT be "refreshing"... more like a bath than a swim.

The other problem with pool water is not all homes have pools (and they are relatively rare in many parts of the country)

I worked at a firm that made ice on a large scale to cool the factory "the next day". My understanding was that their electricity rate was based on peak demand; their peak demand when the building was occupied and machinery operating dictated the rate they paid for the entire day -- even though the building was empty for half of the day. So, making ice had twofold value: shifted some of the peak load AND took advantage of electricity that wasn't being used (but was being billed).

Making ice on that large of a scale likely took a huge investment in capital equipment. But, was also a huge energy "saver" (misnomer).

As with pools, many parts of the country don't have/need air conditioning (at least not on the scale and frequency that we use it here -- 101F yesterday) so it loses its value as a potential solution on those grounds.

Yes, that seems to be a law of nature.

Jeroen Belleman

Assume (?) 4 individuals using those 210 gallons.

OTOH, there are likely many homes that use evaporative cooling. And, folks with pools have large evaporative losses. And, idiots with "lawns" probably lose half of their irrigation to evaporation!

Without the CAP, this area wouldn't have enough water to fit its *residential* needs, let alone agriculture (why the hell are we growing cotton???)

As I mentioned, getting access to the waste (grey) water would be capital intensive. You'd have to plumb from the outlet of each sink/drain *before* the plumbing enters the slab. Then, somehow snake that line to conjoin with the other water sources and, eventually, terminate at a place where it could be processed and reclaimed.

By contrast, rainwater can be collected directly from the roof. (We have a frontier-style home so all of the precipitation leaves the roof at the rear -- which makes gutters impractical. You'd have to install a "french drain" and collect it below grade AFTER it had left the structure)

Replumbing is tens of kilobucks. Remove the attic that your home likely has. And the basement. Where will you run the lines? Can you get from every point A to every point B traveling entirely *through* walls?

Neighbor had a problem with their plumbing and had to resort to such an effort. Walls opened, patched, repainted, etc. Slab jackhammered where a wall didn't/couldn't exist to breach a gap. They had folks working on the house for more than a month.

Then, had to call them back (twice!) as leaks inside the walls materialized (poor workmanship/technology -- hard to run copper pipe AFTER the house is built so they use alternatives)

None of these would be practical options for more than the most determined. If faced with imposed rationing, we would fell the fruit trees (the rest of the yard is low maintenance). Currently, we just pay for the increased water and sewer costs (the fruit is THAT good).

Water has always been a problem, here. But, we tend to be more "responsible" than in other parts of the country (where folks might "sweep" their driveway clean with a stream of water instead of a BROOM!). Or, washing their vehicle in their driveway.

However, it appears that other parts of the country are now starting to have to address water issues and likely haven't yet acquired the proper mindset for the lifestyle changes that it requires.

"In general", it doesn't seem like the expense (of water harvesting and reclamation) would be something folks would stomach for little gain. It might factor into new developments but not "old work".

It's *really* hard to find a "universal" use for excess power as the (potential) big loads vary based on locale. And, you don't want to risk changing behaviors so that these capabilities become *expectations* instead of frosting on the cake.

You're just shifting the point at which the energy becomes surplus. Eventually, ANY storage mechanism becomes saturated. Then what do you do with the excess beyond that point?

The grid gives you an infinite sink. Once you remove that from the calculus, similar sinks are hard to come by!

Flywheel mass-energy storage is usually considered efficient, for immobile installations.

Then there's hydrogen production, for more ephemeral ideas, since hydrogen brittlizes and leaks out most things, while though it's also very efficient its constitution with environment oxygen and results water, it has a short shelf-life.

The notion of splitting carbon dioxide and then making that into a carbon store with calcium carbonate has for making non-volatile dry fuel stores, then that a feed-stock for syn-gas.

Available by the train-car load priced per ton, ....

Efficient but impractical.

It is useful for generating short bumps of extreme current, like for rail guns or megagauss electromagnets.

John Larkin Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center Lunatic Fringe Electronics

Grow lights.

Since the photosynthesis receptors PS1 and PS2 have about a 1% duty-cycle, it's possible to gain great efficiency in LED grow-lights with about 10% duty-cycle operation.

About the matters of photosynthetically active radiation PAR, the particular wavelengths conducive to development are not usual wavelengths of the "about like reflected moonlight" variety of light-emitting diodes.

The other usual ideas of artificial sunlight are rather inefficient.

The rather simple principles of operation of flywheel storage make for that it's plenty practical and even economical, for usual charging when it's sunny/windy, discharging otherwise.

It's being commercialized on a large scale for residential applications.

Notions like the pulsed-power compulsator have that it's also suitable for these kinds of things also.

Well, it sounds like trying to recycle water with your excess electricity is more trouble than it's worth. That suggests you have enough water. At least now. Apologies if I distracted you....

Thanks for writing,

bob prohaska

It's not MY excess electricity! I've already found a use for that (move server farm to an outbuilding and keep everything running and cooled 24/7 purely "as a convenience")

The issue is finding a use for that excess electricity when it is yours, your neighbor's, your friend living in the PNW, relative living in southern Florida, etc.

The point is, it is *hard* to find a use for "excess electricity". Thus, hard to truly be *wasteful* of it!

Leave all the lights on in your house, 24/7? Leave the windows open with the furnace or air conditioning running? Leave every TV and radio on 24/7?

You'd not engage in any of these behaviors even if electricity WAS free! Anything else requires some significant effort and investment. And, is just as likely to have no value to you as it might to some other user.

It's obviously not practical for significant energy storage.

Where?

John Larkin Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center Lunatic Fringe Electronics

It's probably simplest to implement it with commercial-off-the-shelf automotive components, the principle of operation is plenty simple with a rotating shift and motor and generative with a simple sort of clutch, motor runs when there's current, generator when there's not, clutch picks up the slack.

The "commercialized" accounts are getting all bloated with "management software". Simple flywheel storage can be quite simple, and needs no "electronics", per se.

China has many installations on their grid.

Another usual sort of idea is spring-pulley system, as like large leaf springs and a 1024:1 pulley block, made for example of spring and cable steel or carbon fiber composites, then about the control or clutch on the pulley spool to take it in when there's excess electricity and draw it out on demand.

It reminds of a story about the 1940's and '50's, this fellow sort of made a micro-hydro setup out on a little ranch somewhere out on a little range. So, he had lots of excess electricity. He basically ran wires around his buildings with horseshoes as heating elements and basically emitted it as heat, which was useful when it was cold and more or less ignored when it was less cold.

These days there's a usual account of running coolers when there's sunlight.

Anyways flywheels or spring-pulley systems have very well understood mechanical and corresponding electrical principles.

The costs and energy densities are absurd for practical energy storage.

Numbers matter. Engineering.

About the only mechanical energy storage that works is pumped hydro. Possibly compressed air in old salt domes.

The pullys-and-weights thing is an amusing way to raise and waste a lot of money.

John Larkin Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center Lunatic Fringe Electronics

A sufficiently large lever, ....

In the real world a sufficiently long lever would break.

Any real material cable would break under the tension. Carbon nanotubes are almost strong enough.

The othr recurring joke is getting electricity from kites carrying windmills. Well, it keeps raising money.

John Larkin Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center Lunatic Fringe Electronics