silly economics

They also work for idiots. Us.

More news flash! "Permanent" bureaucrats make policy "work" over a span of decades, or the policy simply fades away.

Our ag subsidies system should never work at all, yet it does. It does because somebody had a model where they realized that you could actually more or less price production uncertainty and insure against it.

But under what constraints? If you're in a position to use the cash to fuel growth, you'd be crazy to return it to shareholders.

So the only conclusion from you persuing a stock buyback is that you don't know how to do that, if it can be done at all.

Right. And even then if it's wrapped in the right kind of fund, those taxes are deferred.

Some people are obsessed with tax avoidance. Some are not. If you're saying "we're doing it wrong", 1) I agree and 2) nobody would like it much if we did it right.

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Les Cargill
Reply to
Les Cargill
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We have a massive Commanding Heights problem. Which usually means us Proles are slacking. Possibly for good reason.

Indeed.

They have idiots for bosses - us. Present company excepted of course. :)

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Lese Cargill
Reply to
Les Cargill

You got it all wrong. The politicians in 1934, or the few corrupt ones that decided to have a congressional meeting on XMas eve, were tasked by the banks to pass the law that allowed the FED to be created. Now they are tasked with keeping the people in the dark while taking their money through the income tax and paying the rich the exponentially increasing interest (on interest) on the ever growing national debt.

A system where the government would have printed the money wouldn't have created this pile of interest debts.

When the whole house of cards is going to collapse they'll find an excuse or false flag attack to start WW III and blame the other party.

joe

Reply to
Joe Hey

You're too kind in assuming their good intentions.

The last president that thought he has any power got shot when he tried to get rid of the Federal Reserve. And a few before him too...

joe

}snip{

Reply to
Joe Hey

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Apfelstrudel

joe

Reply to
Joe Hey

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True. Inflation is hidden taxation.

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joe

Reply to
Joe Hey

A better way to understand inflation is as a repudiation (or downplaying) of past debt.

Reply to
Tom Gardner

No, they are extremely crafty and greedy people who get others to underestimate them so that when the money is "gone" people think they really lost it rather than stole it and don't lynch them.

Reply to
jurb6006

rote:

e:

Congratulations. Sadly, pretty much everybody else is. This was Keynes cont ention, and Dan Kahneman showed how it works at the individual level - apar t from on a few hyper-rational individuals like yourself.

oods > and services that do not, and will not exist.

More of them end up existing if you issue money during a recession - enough to almost compensate for the stuff that isn't getting built or sold becaus e people aren't adventurous during recessions.

Once the recession ends, you take away the carrot that was leading the donk ey before anybody can notice that it wasn't there to be eaten, but only to get the donkey moving.

And don't have to be, to create the effect desired.

In a useful way.

wn

g
e

The world looks risky during a recession, even worse during a depression.

James Arthur follows the story in detail, but concentrates his attention of stuff that he thinks makes the Democrats look bad and the Republicans look good.

They did eventually back off from shutting down the government completely, despite the enthusiasm of the more radical Tea Party lunatics.

It's called Keynesian stimulus spending, which our hyper-rational James Art hur sees as pointless, but seems to have been the difference between the 19

29-1933 Great Depression (when US production capacity shrank by 25%)and the 2008-2016 Great Recession (when US production capacity didn't rise as fast as everybody would have liked,but did keep on rising).

The

Fed

n 10

.

No amount of legislation is going to force little old ladies to invest thei r savings wisely. Bending the economy out of shape so that what they choose to do would give them an adequate rate of return wouldn't be wise.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
Bill Sloman

Anything that Dan doesn't understand is "stupid". There's a lot of it about.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
Bill Sloman

Do you lick the Queen's pussy with that mouth ?

Reply to
jurb6006

d noticed the dementia that eventually killed her. "

And you are delusional enough to believe the propaganda they put out. they have repeatedly revised the formulae of economic indicators to make it look better than it is. Like every new crop of kids out of math school are give n a task - make unemployment and inflation look low as possible, the winner gets to work for the government.

If you believe the US government figures on the economy I suggest you go ta ke another bite out of your ipad. That is all the lunch you get.

Reply to
jurb6006

nes' insight. You do seem to be one of them.

ts

James hasn't got the Keynesian message, which is that you if you borrow a l ot of dollars and makes as if you are spending them, quite a few people (al l of them much less perceptive than James Arthur) will take out the dollars that they have been hiding under the mattress and spend them too.

Once this gets under way, you haven't got a recession and can stop the stim ulus spending and start paying back the money you borrowed (which came from under other mattresses). You've got to pay interest on the money you borro wed, but you've got taxes to cover that.

The Great Depression dismantled 25% of the US productive capacity and cut t he potential tax take in the same proportion. The US government incurred mo re debt during the Great Recession, but has come out of it with a bigger ec onomy than it had when it went in, and can afford to pay more interest.

It would have been a lot cheaper for Dubbya to have burst the house price b ubble a lot earlier than 2007, which probably would have prevented the GFC (or at least made it a lot smaller) but he was a Republican and whatever he did, or didn't do, thus has to be perfectly right in James Arthur's eyes.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
Bill Sloman

Sure did, I know two people who will never ever seek a full time job because of it. One actually quit a full tie job WITH BENEFITS.

But to liberals that looks like a step in the right direction.

Reply to
jurb6006

The Keynesian case is that it does. James aRthur can't understand the Keyne sian case, and thinks that it is nonsense because he wouldn't be silly enou gh to be fooled by that kind of trick. Sadly, he's a minority, and Keynesia n tricks do fool enough of the people enough of the time.

The magic wand the politicians can wave - deficit funded stimulus spending

- can't make the problems go away, but it can make them a lot less severe.

The Great Recession hasn't been fun, but it's been lot less trying than the Great Depression was, and the economy has kept on working all through it, and even grown a bit, while the US economy shrank by 25% during the Great Depression.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
Bill Sloman

y

Yes but on e you sign a W-4 or a W-1040 for you have agreed to pay voluntar ily, and if you do not you agree to whatever penalties that PRIVATE CORPORA TION IN DELAWARE says you have to.

I have a copy of their incorporation papers. I also have recordings of radi o shown By Fr. Coughlin asking why these supposed government agencies are i ncorporated IN A STATE. The IRS is not the only one really, a bunch of them created under the traitor FDR were incorporated similarly.

Reply to
jurb6006

It is. the issuance of money is the role of congress. While they would of c ourse have the Constitutional right to create an agency to take care of tha t function, it is extremely improper and unlawful (but not illegal) to a ha ve a foreign owned corporation doing it.

Reply to
jurb6006

The bankers are merely cowards, not idiots, for not speaking up when they were threatened into making those loans.

Reply to
Tom Del Rosso

Yeah, that seems to working out for "them" quite well.

People do not realize just how taxed they are. You got a company, it uses e lectricity, which is taxed when they tax the electric company. You use truc ks, there is tax on each gallon of fuel. you personally get taxed and each and every one of your employees get taxed. They could work cheaper if not f or the tax so that tax is on you ultimately. All the supplies you buy come from companies that are taxed, and all of them have employees who are taxed .

Those employees COULD work cheaper except for the fat that they are taxed o n every damn thing they but. and the companies that make everything they bu y are taxed as well or they could sell at a lower price.

And people do not even know that on each gallon of gasoline, the government makes more money than the oil companies. Seriously.

Reply to
jurb6006

rthur sees as pointless, but seems to have been the difference between the

1929-1933 Great Depression (when US production capacity shrank by 25%)and t he 2008-2016 Great Recession (when US production capacity didn't rise as fa st as everybody would have liked,but did keep on rising).

Keynesian stimulus spending probably worked fairly well during the great de pression, but not so much during the recession in 2008. ( The recession en ded long before 2016. The recession is technically over when the GNP start s increasing. In this last recession it just seemed to last longer as the recovery was very weak.). The problem is that things change and the multip lier is no longer as large as it was. Part of the problem is that stimulus spending in the U.S. does not all stay in the U.S. World trade affects th e size of the multiplier. Another factor is Social Security and other pens ions keep putting money in people pockets to spend. So the stimulus has a smaller effect than in the thirties when there was no Social Security. Som e economists believe there is almost no benefit from the government stimulu s spending. We certainly did not see a big jump in GNP as a result of the stimulus spending.

On the other hand the government almost has to do something. So while it m ay not be very effective, it is about the only thing that can be done. It is not reassuring to say the economy is going to hell and we have not got a clue about what to do.

I expect someone will figure out how to analyse what happened and will writ e a book about ten years from now. Until then I will reserve judgement.

Dan

Reply to
dcaster

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