replacement for NI CADS in cordless vac.

Feb 18, 2008 4 Replies

I have an cordless vac (Dirt Devil) that the NICADS have gotten very weak. They start out good but after about 2 minutes the speed of the blower drops to about half speed then slowly down from there over the next few minutes.



The batteries are sub-c NICADS and the vac has a built in charger (a wall wart plugs in). I have no idea what type of charger is in the vac but the vac stays pulgged in during the week and is used on weekends.



I'd like to either get some higher capacity NICADs, because even when new they didn't quite last long enough or NIMH or LI-PO.



Anyone familar with the NIMH or LIPO battery chemistry and have a suggestion on if the built in charger will be OK to use with those battery types.



Also if I get some high capacity NICADS could they be damaged by the continuous charge from the vac?



The wallwart plug is rated for 9VDC at 600mA.



thanks


Forgot to say that it is a 7.2V 6 cell pack.

I've had a similar experience with a similar dustbuster-type vacuum. Unfortunately, a new set of batteries didn't cure the problem for all that long. Within a year of occasional use, the vacuum's run time was down to a minute or so... the batteries were pretty badly fried.

I believe that a slow-rate (C/20 or so) charger would be safe enough for use with NiMH cells, although it'll take a day or so to completely recharge a fully-drained set of batteries.

It's probably not ideal - just as it isn't idea with NiCd cells. Leaving either type of battery on constant charge (other than a very low-level trickle charge) seems to be a good way to shorten the life of the cell/battery.

Optimum charging of NiMH batteries requires more "smarts" that these devices tend to have, I'm afraid. I believe that the preferred approach is a fairly rapid charge (C/1 to C/3 or so) with an automatic cutoff when the battery terminal voltage stops rising, or the battery temperature increases, or (as a fallback) based on a timer. It's then a good idea to apply a very small trickle charge - maybe C/100 - just enough to overcome the battery's tendency to self-discharge.

I would *NOT* attempt to charge any sort of lithium battery with your existing charger. Most lithium batteries require very careful charge control... I don't know if the LIPO chemistry is less ticklish than the older lithium formulas, but there's a real danger of causing a fire if you mis-charge certain types of lithium battery.

I'm sorry to say that I suspect that the answer is "yes"... the damage may not be immediate but I believe that leaving NiCd batteries on constant charge is likely to greatly shorten their lives.

The sub-C cells are probably good for a few amp-hours. 600 mA would recharge them overnight. Unfortunately, unless the charger has some sort of smart charge-control chip in it, the wall-wart will probably continue dumping a fairly high amount of current into the cells even after they are fully charged, and they'll heat up. You might not get more than a year of use out of them before they, too, will be cooked.

I'm tempted to see if I can whip up some sort of simple circuit to install in my dustbuster cradle... maybe an 8-pin PIC with an ADC to act as a charge controller, and a PNP or P-MOSFET pass transistor to control the charging. It ought to be possible to sense the presence or removal of the vacuum, hit it with a refreshing charge when it's plugged back in, and shut down the charge (or switch to a trickle or pulsed maintenance charge) after a suitable number of hours.

Dave Platt AE6EO Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

Below is not the *best* approach, but a very good one, and better than the "standard" dust-buster type charger. It uses a constant current of ~C/10. When terminal voltage is near, it reduces to something like C/50. This example "steals" current from the regulator when the battery voltage rises to about 7.4, reducing the charging current from ~ 125 mA to roughly 20 mA:

+Vin ---[LM317]------+ | | | [10R] | | +---------+-----------+------+ | | | | [1K] [100R] [330R] [D2] | | | | | +---[LED]---+ | + [D1] | [Batt] | / | +--[Zd]--| NPN | 6.8v \\ | | | Gnd------------------+------------------+

Ed

Nicads are lower impedance than NMH. I can't say for sure if this matters in your case.

I have used

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over the years to build custom battery packs. They have done one of a kind or lots of 50 for me. The advantage is they can electroweld tabs on the battery pack, both between batteries and at the ends of the pack, so you won't damage the cells. They will also put heat shrink around the pack if you want it. You will need to draw the pack, and not freakin' ASCII art.

I commend you for not dumping the vacuum in the trash. I used to rebuild my electric razor, but Philips has the battery management down to an art that the shaver lasts so long you might as well upgrade.

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