Re: REQ: Circuit to join two phone lines for 3-way conversation

I am in the UK.

> >I have a Virgin Media/NTL landline and am considering installing a BT >landline too. (I need Caller ID but VM/NTL don't have it in my area). > >If I have answered a call on VM/NTL and also on BT then how can I join the >two lines to have a 3-way conversation? > >Is there a circuit I can build which will join the two lines?

Look up circuits called "4 wire terminating set", or "4 wire hybrid".

And perhaps a "4-way 4-wire bridge".

Understanding those will make it obvious how to properly bridge two telephone lines. Just be aware that it is not as simple it sounds...

(1) Perhaps picking up the signals by a transformer across each of the two >line cords?

Close.

(2) Perhaps across each curly lead which goes from handset to phone?

Don't even think about that... ;-)

(3) Would I get better results "audio-coupling" the handsets. Holding one >earpiece close to the other mouthpiece and vice versa?

Awful idea.

Here are the problems...

Each telephone line is designed to be terminated in about 600 Ohms impedance, and deliver about a -9 dBm signal to the telephone set. It expects to get about a

0 dBm signal from the telephone set.

Okay, if you simply place two telephone sets across the same line, or if you have one telephone set and two lines, you split the power coming from any of the three sources (line, set 1 or set 2) two ways into the other two devices. That drops the signal level by 3 dB for both of those devices. That might work if the connection is good and the speaker is loud and clear. If the connection is bad or your speaker is quiet, it's a bad deal. (In the case of two lines, you have to deal with the DC loop currents on each line separately from the AC voice signals.)

The trick is to split the signal from a line and then amplify it 3 db for each split. The problem is that you cannot put an amplifier directly into a telephone line because there is a signal going in both directions and amplifiers are one way devices. You need a hybred circuit to split off the transmit and receive directions so that an amplifier can be put into each direction.

+--------+ TX 1-way|\\ +------+ 2-way| |->-------| >-----| | Line 1 >=====| Hybrid | |/ /| | | | |--------| >-----| | Line 2 >=====| Hybrid | |/ /| | | | |--------| >-----| | telset 1 >=====| Hybrid | |/ /| | | | |--------| >-----| | telset 2 >=====| Hybrid | |/ /| | | | |-
Reply to
Floyd L. Davidson
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[snip]

: : This device, all put together, is called a "conference : : bridge". And while what I've show above is fairly : : simple looking, and can be built with 8 op amps, 4 : : hybrid transformers and a pile of resistors, switch : : etc... getting it to work right would not be simple. : : : : Commercial units today are more likely to digitize each : : interface, and do all of the mixing with digital : : signals, and include echo cancellation as part of the : : signal processing. That works very nice, but isn't : : exactly a simply device either.

A two-line phone with the facility built in would be a lot simpler and probably cheaper too.

Ivor

Reply to
Ivor Jones

Typical two-line phones have a "conf" button, but it doesn't do it like that. They just bridge the vf paths, which as noted actually can work once in awhile... but usually at least one party can't hear another one.

--
Floyd L. Davidson 
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)              floyd@apaflo.com
Reply to
Floyd L. Davidson
[snip]

: : Typical two-line phones have a "conf" button, but it : : doesn't do it like that. They just bridge the vf paths, : : which as noted actually can work once in awhile... but : : usually at least one party can't hear another one.

I have a BT Converse 2025 and use the facility regularly. Don't know the technicalities of the circuit, but it works fine.

Ivor

Reply to
Ivor Jones

On Wed 29 Aug 2007 19:51:43, Ivor Jones wrote in uk.telecom:

Are the two incoming lines to your BT Converse 2025 from BT and from Virgin Media?

ISTR BT and VM line voltages are quite different.

Reply to
Lemmo
[snip]

: : Are the two incoming lines to your BT Converse 2025 : : from BT and from Virgin Media? : : : : ISTR BT and VM line voltages are quite different.

At the moment I must confess it's 2 extensions from my PBX which has lines from 4 different providers going into it. However I have used it "standalone" with BT and Sipgate VoIP with no problems.

Never been anywhere near VM.

Ivor

Reply to
Ivor Jones

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